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Eagledad

The Question That Reveals the Heart of the "BSA" Culture Wars

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Note that people are saying delivery of the traditional program leads to developing masculinity. Not all the changes and recent ad hoch things groups have chosen to infuse in to the program. 

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8 hours ago, EmberMike said:

I don't get it. So many folks here are always voicing concerns about the weakening of the program, how things will change when girls arrive, losing the masculinity of the BSA, etc. And yet the consensus here now seems to be that delivery of the program is what drives delivery of the masculine aspect of Scouting. 

Assuming that the Boy Scout program doesn't change because of the girls' program, and if program is the means by which we deliver the whole "turning boys into men" component, then what's the problem? 

I’m wondering if you are confusing discussions because I’m not seeing posts showing concern with loosing masculinity of the program as a result of girls until you mistakenly refered to masculinity as a program goal. Where did that come from?

Barry

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14 hours ago, Eagledad said:

I’m wondering if you are confusing discussions because I’m not seeing posts showing concern with loosing masculinity of the program as a result of girls until you mistakenly refered to masculinity as a program goal. Where did that come from?

Barry

There were questions about how to keep masculinity in the BSA. And answers that said to just stick with the program to achieve that. 

I don't believe masculinity is a program goal. If you inferred that from something I posted, that was not my intent. 

Edited by EmberMike

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18 minutes ago, EmberMike said:

There were questions about how to keep masculinity in the BSA. And answers that said to just stick with the program to achieve that. 

I don't believe masculinity is a program goal. If you inferred that from something I posted, that was not my intent. 

“”I'm still struggling with the "masculinity" part of the equation. For starters, I never felt like cultivating masculinity was ever a keystone of Scouting. The whole "turning boys into men" thing, I know that's the ultimate goal of Scouting for some folks here, but officially it's leadership training and character development, as it has been for ages. Two things that are gender-neutral and not dependent on masculinity to achieve. “”

This was the first mention of masculinity as a scouting goal. It fueled any following post that referenced masculinity as a goal. 

You have been clear through several discussions that you don’t believe a gender specific program provides an advantage for a scout’s growth. Some topics appear to trigger (emotional?) responses that apparently are intended for balance. However there is a difference between “agreeing to disagree” and “changing the tone of a discussion”.

Barry

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2 hours ago, Eagledad said:

You have been clear through several discussions that you don’t believe a gender specific program provides an advantage for a scout’s growth. Some topics appear to trigger (emotional?) responses that apparently are intended for balance. However there is a difference between “agreeing to disagree” and “changing the tone of a discussion”.

I'm really not following you here. You quoted me saying exactly what I've been saying all along. Where's the "changing the tone"? 

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