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Eagledad

The Question That Reveals the Heart of the "BSA" Culture Wars

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Perhaps the discussions would focus on those things more if the issues and politics forum went away. And any mention of such topics were moderated away. 

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The article points to the popularity of Jordan Peterson,   Jordan Peterson has said many times that the young men who flock to him are hungry for responsibility in a world that scream for rights. 

My question is do young men view BSA as a group to join that would aid them to grow in good character and learn to be responsible or do young men view BSA has something else?

At a time when young men need something like the BSA more than ever how come they are not flocking to join?

 

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30 minutes ago, cocomax said:

The article points to the popularity of Jordan Peterson,   Jordan Peterson has said many times that the young men who flock to him are hungry for responsibility in a world that scream for rights. 

My question is do young men view BSA as a group to join that would aid them to grow in good character and learn to be responsible or do young men view BSA has something else?

At a time when young men need something like the BSA more than ever how come they are not flocking to join?

Time and effort. Folks are in for the "quick fix" these days. If you can't drop in, do some work and get the bling fast, they think it is too much work.

I hate to say it, but many folks thee days just don't like things that take time, patience and effort. They want immediate (or near immediate) gratification.

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I'm waiting for David French to answer his own question.  The only thing I get our of this opinion articles is that Conservatives are right and Liberals are wrong.  The shame of it is that the answer is probably somewhere in the middle.  The culture war isn't raging because one side is right and the other side is wrong (choose your sides according to your beliefs).  The culture war is raging because both sides are right and both sides are wrong and they can't seem to come together to discuss the issues with an open heart and open mind to get to a common understanding.

So what is a man?

 

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2 hours ago, Back Pack said:

Perhaps the discussions would focus on those things more if the issues and politics forum went away. And any mention of such topics were moderated away. 

I feel like we'd be accused of silencing dissent or something like that. Some of the other Scouting websites I follow don't allow discussions of politics, I'd be thrilled if we went away from that to a forum that just focuses on the program. 

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2 hours ago, Back Pack said:

Perhaps the discussions would focus on those things more if the issues and politics forum went away. And any mention of such topics were moderated away. 

I wish we could go back to discussing topics that pertain to the nuts and bolts of Scouting.  You may have noticed that I continue to post in the Patrol Method section several times each week.  In my opinion, Green Bar Bill's legacy needs more focus here and less of the discussion of "issues & politics."  This particular I&P sub-forum was initiated, I believe, to keep the divisive language and attitudes out of the other Scouting sub-fora.  I tend to stay out of I&P because I'm more interested in hearing about Scouting topics like Patrol Method, Advancement, etc., just as @Eagledad mentions above.  

Why don't we challenge ourselves to stay out of I&P for a week and focus on building up the Patrol Method?  How about discussing fun options for Blue and Gold ceremonies?  My moderation style is more of suggestions like this and I think it would be great if we could steer our passion for Scouting away from bickering at each other and, instead, focusing on being Scouts and Scouters. 

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2 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Has any boy of the scout age ever felt they needed more character?

Scouting is an adult program designed to develop boys into men of character (A game with a purpose).

The attraction for boys is the adventure. The exhilaration of experiencing the independence for making responsible decisions is what keeps them in the program after the exhilaration of adventure becomes balanced with normality.

Barry

Well said.  This captures my thoughts.

This is why I think it helps for us as adults to remember this balance.  We can't make it all game or all purpose.  But, we orchestrate the game to achieve the purpose.

In the context of this discussion, I'm struck that no-where in the BSA literature does it say "turn boys into men".  We talk about boys developing character, but don't talk about what that means.  What does character mean for young men today?  So, as we orchastrate that game, how would we do it differently for boys than for girls?

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5 minutes ago, LeCastor said:

Why don't we challenge ourselves to stay out of I&P for a week and focus on building up the Patrol Method?  How about discussing fun options for Blue and Gold ceremonies?  My moderation style is more of suggestions like this and I think it would be great if we could steer our passion for Scouting away from bickering at each other and, instead, focusing on being Scouts and Scouters. 

Nice idea. But it's like eating potato chips: You swear you will just have one, then you have two bowls full. You swear it off for a while, but then someone brings in "crab chips" (cue thread-jack) and you are back eating more.

I have to agree. Why can't we just get rid of it. It seems that the mods spend a great deal of their time refereeing discussions (fights) that end up "agreeing to disagree". If it really takes away from the forum that much -- and costs us time away from the real reasons we come here -- then why have it at all?

I'd vote for taking it down and just being a place where we focus on program delivery, not I&P.

Edited by Col. Flagg

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12 minutes ago, Sentinel947 said:

I feel like we'd be accused of silencing dissent or something like that. Some of the other Scouting websites I follow don't allow discussions of politics, I'd be thrilled if we went away from that to a forum that just focuses on the program. 

You may by some. However, a Scout forum should be about discussing the program. Maybe long ago the I&P section was a good idea. But now it is just a polarizing place where no minds are changed. I am sure I am not alone in this. @EmberMike and I disagree a great deal. I suspect if we discussed only Scouting program stuff we'd likely agree on much more.

I think we are all guilty of eating too many chips from the I&P bowl. I'd like to say I have willpower to stay away, but it's just too tempting to show you guys where you are wrong (joke). From the posts in there I know I am not the only one who suffers from this.

Maybe it's time to sunset I&P and focus on why we are all here.

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12 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

So, as we orchastrate that game, how would we do it differently for boys than for girls?

It's not so much orchestrating the game differently, but allowing the freedom to experiment with decisions without interference of girls. I know from experience that the choices youth make will very greatly depending whether the opposite sex is within the vicinity. How many of us have watch our own children change their demeanor in some of the activities when we as their parents got near them? Same goes with Girl Scouts.

Barry

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Personally I think the I&P section is healthy, especially during these times. It is intended to be a safe place to learn and understand how others think differently.

I think one reason other threads aren't as active is because new members feel some hostility in the answers to their questions. So, they don't hang around. I'm sure I'm part of the problem also.

Where the I&P goes off track is when posts get personal forcing additional responses to defend or equalize the offending post. Still, I think the positives outweigh the negatives. I would love to experiment one thread with a rule that each poster only gets one post to express their opinion, and then see how the discussion tracks. I really have no idea, but it would be a fun experiment.

Barry

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I am opposed to removing I&P as many issues regarding how to carry out the program will often evolve into philosophical 'why' issues. If we merely wanted to ask "how many weeks does a camper need to do 'x'" than that could just be an official BSA site. Removing I&P does seem to feel like censoring. If I&P really bothers folks just avoid it. I try to avoid Wood Badge threads for the same reason. 

But it is not 'my' board just like while I am a Scouter I do not 'own' BSA. My opinion but not my decision.

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15 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Still, I think the positives outweigh the negatives. I would love to experiment one thread with a rule that each poster only gets one post to express their opinion, and then see how the discussion tracks. I really have no idea, but it would be a fun experiment.

Barry

I'm game. Setup up a experiment topic with your one post and done rule. I will delete those who attempt a second post.

 

Edited by RememberSchiff

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