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What would you do (if you were me) in this situation?


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Hi Scouters,

I am a parent of two Scouts, a 2nd Class and Tenderfoot.  They went to a winter cabin camping event this past weekend.  My older son has ADHD and he takes social skills classes, overall he's not perfect, but he's doing well and making good progress.  My husband, who is an ASM, observed at the end of the day, my son approached two older scouts who were playing a card game and he politely asked if he could join in.  The older boys said no and continued without him.

This has happened once before on another winter outing, last year or the year before -- my son asked to be included in a game and was turned down.

My husband did not intervene, it sounds like he feels like the older boys have the right to say no to my son, at the same time he is troubled by it, and was awake at night thinking about the situation.  When we got home, my husband told my oldest son that he was proud of him for asking nicely if he could play and he's sorry that the older boys left him out. He says he said something about scout skills (which is entirely too vague to mean anything) at the roses and thorns, but he means, that the older boys need to be more welcoming.  Friendly, and all that.  One of the two boys who said no is the ASPL.   

If you were me, the mom, or my husband, the ASM, what would you do?   Nothing?  Mention it to someone?  

Thanks for your help, I appreciate it!

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5 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

If you were me, the mom, or my husband, the ASM, what would you do?   Nothing?  Mention it to someone?  

As a mum? I'd worry about it, and feel a little sad for my son.

From the details given, it could anything on a scale from the other scouts just being in the middle of a game and not wanting to think of a 3 handed game, to them deliberately excluding your son because he's special/different/they don't like him, in the middle there's being a bit selfish, or a bit un-scoutlike. Truth is somewhere on that scale. If your son's not bothered by it, it's not really a problem. Maybe if there was an opportunity not long after I may have had a quiet little word with the two boys, but only if I'd observed it and was not a parent of the lone boy. More an open question to them "why didn't you want to let Bob join in your game chaps?" and see where it led.

My gut says it *seems* like no big deal, so no big deal should be made of it. Certainly the time to act was then, now is too late.

Painful for a parent to observe though. No-one wants to see their kid rejected by others.

 

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5 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

If it were me, I would suggest to my son that he find a buddy his own age and/or in his patrol to play cards with.  Presumably your son was not the only boy who was not playing cards.

I think the thing is that they were playing a particular card game with a specialized deck that he really enjoys.   Both of the older boys are in his patrol  (about 2 years older than he is).  

I am not concerned because this happened once, I am concerned that it's happened twice, but it feels like there is not much I can do.  But would you mention a concern to the SM to perhaps keep an eye out for exclusion? 

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Wisconsin, I had the exact same experience with my older son...it took him awhile to find some 'crony's' and some boys did reject him. Some of it got ugly but he did self-advocate (as they say) with "I got a disability, whats your excuse?". 

When we see this, and we do because there more scouts 'with issues' than the general population IMHO, as an ASM or the SM may invite said boy to do something with us. 

Looking back I see quite a lot of discrimination, still, against boys with disabilities but it was--for my son--less so in Scouts (especially after he had proven himself in some area) than school. But yes as a parent it hurt. 

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Sounds like next camp out he needs to bring his own deck of cards and find a buddy. 

 

If your Husband observed them being rude in response, then it would warrant a different response.  Just saying no isn't a crime.  You also this has happened once before, but a year or two in the past, so this isn't considered a pattern yet.

 

Big props to your husband for staying out of it and not running to "defend" your son.

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Yeah, my husband doesn't want to be the adult that interferes for his kid.  My oldest is 13, and the other boys are probably 15 and 16 or 17.

In the social skills classes, he has learned to observe people and choose the people that he has things in common with to be friends with, and I get the impression that my son would very much like to be friends with both of these boys, who are in his patrol.  (My son and another boy are the two youngest in the mixed age patrol, but I don't know if the two of them have found much in common.)  ETA: my son's issues are minor, it's not a big obvious disability, but he has an IEP at school and in a group he will sometimes stand out as being a little different.  

Oh well, hopefully in time as a patrol they'll get more opportunities to build rapport. 

Edited by WisconsinMomma
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22 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

... but he has an IEP at school and in a group he will sometimes stand out as being a little different.  

My apologies if this seems flippant, but I've got sons with IEPs.  I swear schools use IEPs to manage the number one disease that schools can't handle anymore:  being a boy.   

 

22 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

... My oldest is 13, and the other boys are probably 15 and 16 or 17.In the social skills classes 

There is huge maturity differences in those two / three years.  Jobs.  Cars.  Dating.  I'd hope those kids would want to include your son, but I can also understand their wanting their own time.  

35 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

Both of the older boys are in his patrol  (about 2 years older than he is).  

SIDE DISCUSSION - Pray I don't take us off topic.  It's why I don't like mixed age patrols.  Mixed age patrols work well in many ways, but I'd rather see scouts initially grouped by age or when they join.  THEN, let them stick together or switch patrols to be with friends.  I just don't see the purpose of a patrol if a scout has to go visit other patrols when he wants to do something.  The best experiences my sons have had is when they had scouts in their patrol that were good friends because then patrol meetings actually planned things they wanted to do and the patrol actually went out together and did things.  

RECOMMENDATION - When he goes on a camp out, make sure he has a football, game, book or other that he can use to fill time and/or play with other scouts.  If they won't include him, then set him up such that other scouts want to join him.  


 

Edited by fred johnson
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38 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

@WisconsinMomma ...and I am off to son#2's IEP meeting. More pushing around CYA paperwork than actual help. 

So so true.  I question the value of IEPs ... except that parents need to make sure they get listed in the IEP accomodations they want.  If it's not in the IEP, it's no where. 

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Just found this post now. (I hate this new software.)

I’m a current youth as most know. I’m saying flat out that it’s most likely not because he has ADHD or is taking classes (which is great that he is helping himself). Scout Troops have the amount of drama as school has, including the same issues. 

Older scouts usually want to play games with older scouts only, or want to play with their friends. I’ll admit I’ve said no before since I wanted to play with the older scouts & my friends.

I wouldn’t take this personally, I over think everything as well. I would’ve thought the same thing at night, but it’s something has helped me with rejection, and will most likely help your son.

As said before, usually everyone has a group of their friends in a troop, mostly around the same age of them. 

I would have him connect more with the younger scouts and it’ll probably work out better since younger scouts are “new”, and want to try new things.

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The SM should know that your husband is picking up a pattern of behavior. There's not much to do about it, but it's always good to see if the older boys widen their circle or narrow it. Boys who widen their circle to other scouts are likely engaging the program. Those who are narrowing their circle may be disengaging and might soon be on the way out.

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