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59 minutes ago, Thunderbird said:

A lot of girl's dens will probably need more time anyway, especially if most 5th grade girls don't join until August-September.  They wouldn't meet the 6-month tenure requirement until February-March.

While a lot may need more time, not all. While the "Early Adopters" cannot  have 5th graders currently, come June 1st, they will be "AOL Cub Scouts". And the requirement is 

  1. Be active in your Webelos den for at least six months since completing the fourth grade or for at least six months since becoming 10 years old.

 

Theoretically, if a girl could earn AOL and cross over  as early as June 16th if she was in 4th grade and turned ten prior to January 16th.

 

As for holding back dens, how do you think it would play out if only boys were able to cross over, butnot the girls?

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I dunno.  I have only seen dens crossover to Boy Scouts in February-March.  Haven't seen any dens completely ready to crossover in December in my area, although some individual Scouts might be ready.

Edited by Thunderbird

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Every unit is different, just as every Scout is different. In my neck of the woods, Dec-Jan has turned into Cross Over month because of recharter.  Packs don't want to deal with rechartering folks only for a month or less. And we have a semi active summer: a couple activities and day camp. Both my older sons' dens were chomping at the bit to cross over in December. Plus it gives more time for the new Scouts to get acclimated to Boy Scouts before summer camp.

 

One thing to remember, even when a unit does not meet, it count towards being active with the unit for advancement purposes. So even if the unit does not meet during the summer, it counts.

 

 

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16 hours ago, Thunderbird said:

I dunno.  I have only seen dens crossover to Boy Scouts in February-March.  Haven't seen any dens completely ready to crossover in December in my area, although some individual Scouts might be ready.

Many of our Packs crossover in the fall prior to the Troop recharter. Works out well for both the Pack and the Troop.

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53 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

Many of our Packs crossover in the fall prior to the Troop recharter. Works out well for both the Pack and the Troop.

I guess there aren't very many 5th graders joining the packs?  And what about Scouts with late birthdays?  My Scout would not have been able to join until late December because he has an August birthday and school gets out late here (late June).

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40 minutes ago, Thunderbird said:

I guess there aren't very many 5th graders joining the packs?

Why? They can crossover too.

 

40 minutes ago, Thunderbird said:

And what about Scouts with late birthdays? 

If they completed AOL, then they can crossover at 10.

 

If they just joined in the fall, then I would assume the Pack will make helping them get AOL a priority so that they could crossover with their Den.

 

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24 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

Why? They can crossover too.

 

If they completed AOL, then they can crossover at 10.

 

If they just joined in the fall, then I would assume the Pack will make helping them get AOL a priority so that they could crossover with their Den.

 

Because they can't complete AOL until they complete the 6 months active tenure with their Webelos den requirement.  If they join at the beginning of the 5th grade in August-September, they won't meet the 6 months active tenure until February-March. 

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2 minutes ago, Thunderbird said:

Because they can't complete AOL until they complete the 6 months active tenure with their Webelos den requirement.  If they join at the beginning of the 5th grade in August-September, they won't meet the 6 months active tenure until February-March. 

That is correct. BUT they only need to meet the Bobcat and AOL requirements. BUT if they join as 4th graders in a Spring Round up, even if the pack does not meet over the summer, that is 3 months tenure for them.

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Some of you are talking about boys joining Cubs for the first time at the beginning of fifth grade.  How often does that actually happen?  In my five-year involvement with Cub Scouts as an adult, I don't think I ever saw that happen.  In fact I doubt any kids joined the pack after the third grade. Of course that was awhile ago - my son crossed over in 2003.  And maybe the recruiting in our area focused mainly on kids going into Tigers and not on older boys.

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24 minutes ago, Thunderbird said:

they won't meet the 6 months active tenure until February-March. 

Valid.

I honestly don't know what troops do in that situation locally. My son's Pack did not have any 5th graders join during his time so they did not have to address that situation.

My son's Troop takes crossovers through the year so not all local Packs move as quickly. Perhaps the Packs work together to help such applicants find a home that better fits their timeline.

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4 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

Valid.

I honestly don't know what troops do in that situation locally. My son's Pack did not have any 5th graders join during his time so they did not have to address that situation.

My son's Troop takes crossovers through the year so not all local Packs move as quickly. Perhaps the Packs work together to help such applicants find a home that better fits their timeline.

 

We had one guy join in 5th grade, while he didn't cross over with his den,  he was visiting the troop as a Webelos every week until he turned 11, which was about 2 or 3 months later. We had one guy this year finish everything but the tenure requirements in mid September. He spent the remaining time with the troop visiting.

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33 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

Some of you are talking about boys joining Cubs for the first time at the beginning of fifth grade.  How often does that actually happen?  In my five-year involvement with Cub Scouts as an adult, I don't think I ever saw that happen.  In fact I doubt any kids joined the pack after the third grade. Of course that was awhile ago - my son crossed over in 2003.  And maybe the recruiting in our area focused mainly on kids going into Tigers and not on older boys.

This was the purpose behind getting rid of the requirement to earn the Webelos rank before being able to earn AOL rank when they revamped the Cub Scout program in 2015.  The idea was the 5th graders were discouraged from joining Cub Scouts in the 5th grade, because there wasn't enough time to do everything to earn Bobcat, Webelos, and AOL ranks - it was pretty overwhelming to try to do all of that under the old program when you are brand new to Cub Scouting.  At the same time, many 5th graders are not 11 at the beginning of the school year, so they aren't old enough to join a troop yet, either.

In theory, packs should be seeing more Cubs join at the beginning of the 5th grade now, so that they aren't "lost" to sports and other extracurricular activities.  I have seen lots of new Cubs join in 3rd and 4th grade.  5th grade, too, but it is more rare.

Edited by Thunderbird

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We've had some join in 4th, but none lately join in 5th grade. Actually, the largest group for the last few years has been 2nd grade. Modestly sized Tiger dens blow up into big Wolf dens. Then the conundrum is do we split into separate dens, and if so, how? I can see related issues with the membership requirements changing, influx of me scouts, dissatisfaction with it all, and lots of swizzling and requests to combine girls and boys when numbers bounce around. What a mess. And of course many solutions will be reactive instead of being planned in advance. So much for promoting a strong program and plan...

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In my Pack, boys advance by birthday, and we go year-round - there's no summer break, and we ignore the School year calendar. So, if a boy turns 10 in March, he becomes a Webelos Scout, and when he turns 11 he advances to the Troop chartered by our same congregation. 

As the Webelos Den Leader, I make sure that when a boy earns his Arrow of Light, he receives it at the very next monthly Pack Meeting - I don't wait around for other boys to earn it. So, if the boy who turned 10 in March competes the requirements in November, then that's when I award him his AofL. That means his bridging ceremony is done separately from the AofL in February or March. Almost all of my boys finish the AofL a few months before they turn 11 and cross over, so we have AofL ceremonies and bridging ceremonies happening year-round. Families tend to be much happier, there's no waiting around for Scouts who are taking longer, and the boys get a constant stream of exciting ceremonies to look forward to. I think it works far better than the School-year model which seems to cause so many people so much grief.

Edited by The Latin Scot
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Incidentally, if you have a Scout who has completed his requirements and is ready to move on, talk with your leadership and see if they can award him his rank sooner rather than waiting around for the others. It's false to believe that boys have to wait to earn it all together at the end of the School year, and as a parent, you have the right to a say in your son's advancement.

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