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1 hour ago, Hawkwin said:

For Troops that already have a helicopter parent problem, that problem very likely predates the use of "family camping." In other words, those Troops have a problem with that program that doesn't having anything to do with this relatively brand new term that has yet to really have any implementation.

For Troops that don't have a problem with helicopter parents, I see no reason why this rather ambiguous term should result in the destruction of the core fundamentals of how the programs works.

 

As I said, the problem of family camping is not new. The argument, however, is that the demand will increase because of BSA's over-emphasis on the subject. If you look at their whole marketing and use of the term, they keep talking about a one-stop shop, family-inclusive events and units. In fact, that concept is the basis for the whole girls-in-Boy Scouts issue; giving the modern "busy" parents a single place where they can drop off their kids. Check out the articles in Scouting and on the "Family Camping" page posted above.

So my argument would be that the demand for family-friendly activities will increase because the incoming parents -- presumably pulled in by all this family marketing hype -- will pull out the brochure and point to National saying, "See, says right here 'family-oriented'" and expect Boy Scout and Venturing units to offer that up. The savvy new parent will pull out the poorly worded GTSS and point to page 22-23 for back-up.

1 hour ago, an_old_DC said:

I am hearing lots of concern from CMs that parents will think BSA stands for “baby sitters anonymous” and Mom and dad will drop off all the kids and go on date night. It already happens to some extent but the concern is it will get much worse and all the kids will get dumped. Then pack and den meetings will be disasters, nobody enjoys it, and boys, girls and adult leaders will quit.

We all be that now, and I agree it will likely increase. The irony I find is that the "busy mom" or "busy dad" will drop their kids off at a Cub meeting, then go hang out at Starbucks and read a book or play Candy Crush until the meeting is over. Why? They need their "down time" while you and I keep their kids entertained for an hour or so.

Is that the majority of people? No. But in the last 15 years of Scouting I haven't seen a stampede of people to volunteer either. Usually it takes recruiting. Usually they are older parents or even grand parents. It is rare to see the late 20 or 30 year old who steps up.

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Yep - I also don't see anything in there about throwing away Scout led or the patrol method.  I don't see anything about the end to backpacking or making Boy Scouts a family camping club.

The FAQ has:

Q. Will there be new curriculum for girl participants? Will you change the program to accommodate girls?

No. Our existing programs are relevant for young men and women. After all, the values of Scouting as outlined in the Scout Law – trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent – are relevant and important values for both young men and women.

 

 

"family scouting" is just another phrase for "adding girls".  It's a way of saying that all the kids in the family can participate, not just the sons.  It's a way to say that all parents can volunteer because all their kids can benefit.  It's not a way to say that Boy Scouts is now a family camping club.

Edited by ParkMan
fixed formatting

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13 hours ago, Chadamus said:

Yes.

His parents? Doubtful.

Point being they are few and far between. Mostly because the average 11 year old does not have the strength to carry a pack with 35lbs, let alone carry it for 20 miles.

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17 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

With my troop, that is why call the whitewater trek a "family camp out with each family responsible for themselves," so they can do Class IV rapids.

So I am curious, the way I read the GTSS you would still need to apply the age guidelines for activities even to a family camp out, no?

I keep hearing about "family camping" rules (or whatever we want to call them) and I cannot find anything from BSA that says "If you call it 'family camping' then the GTSS and age matrix are out the window and it's essentially a bunch of families camping."

Am I missing something?

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7 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

So I am curious, the way I read the GTSS you would still need to apply the age guidelines for activities even to a family camp out, no?

I keep hearing about "family camping" rules (or whatever we want to call them) and I cannot find anything from BSA that says "If you call it 'family camping' then the GTSS and age matrix are out the window and it's essentially a bunch of families camping."

Am I missing something?

But in my experience that is what EXACTLY what happens. Everyone becomes less vigilant about everything like swim checks, PFD's, even water bottles. We used to never do a Scout Hike with out visible proof of a filled 1 liter nalgene or similar. (I am sure a lot of you have had to wait around for the boy who didn't show up with one). 

I know some of us are reading a lot in because a lot is not spelled out. 

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But, I'd think this is the wrong direction to go.  If you've got families on a camping trip, it's the time to show the troop being it's most responsible.  

You get to "show off" the program and get those families interested in helping.

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51 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

I must be missing it. I don't see anywhere on that page, or in any of the links, where they talk about capping the participation age at 10...

 

In the link I posted, see under Program and Membership, click the Factsheet. It shows the Family Scouting program being at the Cub level only, ages 6-10. 

Edited by EmberMike

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1 minute ago, EmberMike said:

In the link I posted, see under Program and Membership, click the Factsheet. It shows the Family Scouting program being at the Cub level only, ages 6-10. 

I saw that. Then I saw the GTSS say that it allows Cubs, Boy Scouts and Venturing to have "family camping" but gives no real guidelines.

So you reference these "documents" that outline family camping. Can you point these out? Because that fact sheet gives even less (and conflicting) information than the GTSS does.

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1 minute ago, Col. Flagg said:

I saw that. Then I saw the GTSS say that it allows Cubs, Boy Scouts and Venturing to have "family camping" but gives no real guidelines.

So you reference these "documents" that outline family camping. Can you point these out? Because that fact sheet gives even less (and conflicting) information than the GTSS does.

I didn't reference any documents that outline "family camping". 

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1 minute ago, EmberMike said:

I didn't reference any documents that outline "family camping". 

2 hours ago, EmberMike said:

I might be wrong about this, but the stuff I've read about Family Scouting has it capped at 10 years of age. Unless that changed since the BSA release their literature on the subject. I was under the impression that the family program was not for the older programs. So if a parent is showing up with their 15-year-old asking for Family Scouting, I'd just refer them to the various documents the BSA has put out outlining what the Family Scouting program actually is

You mention "various documents" that "outline(ing) what the Family Scouting program actually is."

We've been discussing family camping. Are you merging "family camping" and "family scouting" (the later being the recent coed move?

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11 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

You mention "various documents" that "outline(ing) what the Family Scouting program actually is."

We've been discussing family camping. Are you merging "family camping" and "family scouting" (the later being the recent coed move?

You're reading something in what I've said that isn't there. I mentioned Family Scouting in the context of addressing your concern about parental influence in activity choices, parents possibly wanting all-ages family-friendly activities, making it harder to do the kinds of trips you mentioned, backpacking, whitewater, climbing, etc. 

I mentioned Family Scouting and the documents I referenced to point out that Family Scouting caps at age 10 and so would have no bearing on Troops doing more adventerous activities. 

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32 minutes ago, EmberMike said:

You're reading something in what I've said that isn't there. I mentioned Family Scouting in the context of addressing your concern about parental influence in activity choices, parents possibly wanting all-ages family-friendly activities, making it harder to do the kinds of trips you mentioned, backpacking, whitewater, climbing, etc. 

I mentioned Family Scouting and the documents I referenced to point out that Family Scouting caps at age 10 and so would have no bearing on Troops doing more adventerous activities. 

But that's just it, family participation in Scouting is NOT capped. The fact sheet your reference specially addresses the integration of girls in to Scouting program and how that will work. It mentions the age groups merely to point out that Cubs run from 6-10 years old. It does not address the issue of "family camping"; which is a different issue altogether. The GTSS is the only document I can find that addresses "family camping".

The way I read it, the documents you are referencing discuss "Family Cub Scouts" (their term and not defined), which I take to mean Cub Scout Packs that are coed.

This is different from what we've been discussing which is "Family Scouting", which I took to be defined as "Family members of all ages (one of which is BSA registered) attending either Cub, Boy Scout or Venturing activities as part of a unit-based event." It is this issue which has, and will continue to, impact family pressure on units to have more inclusive activities.

Edited by Col. Flagg

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1 hour ago, Col. Flagg said:

This is different from what we've been discussing which is "Family Scouting", which I took to be defined as "Family members of all ages (one of which is BSA registered) attending either Cub, Boy Scout or Venturing activities as part of a unit-based event." It is this issue which has, and will continue to, impact family pressure on units to have more inclusive activities.

 

The new family-oriented scouting effort that we know as "Family Scouting" has not been defined for use above age 10. Have you seen or heard anything that says otherwise? The documents I referenced back this up, that the family component (getting everyone in the family involved) does not extend to the Troop or Venture level, and those programs are not the focus of the effort to bring the whole family into the program. However if you can point me to something that says otherwise, I'd love to see it. 

You mentioned backpacking, whitewater, and climbing earlier, with the concern that this new emphasis on the "family" part of the program would limit the availability of those activities due to pressure from parents to provide more family-friendly activities for all ages. In the GTSS those activities are already limited to age 11 and above. Family Souting doesn't apply to them, there is no cross-over between Family Scouting and troop-age activities that families could potentially pressure units to provide for a broader range of ages.  

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1 hour ago, EmberMike said:

The new family-oriented scouting effort that we know as "Family Scouting" has not been defined for use above age 10.

This is where I think we are talking past each other.

I thought when this thread was discussing "Family Scouting" as a generic term, we were discussing the "Familization" of Scouting. Meaning that family camping (as defined in the GTSS which I cited previously) will be allowed at all levels of Scouting. Thus mom, dad, Life Scout and 4 year old sister will be able to go on camp outs with Life Scout's troop.

You seem to be discussing "Family Scouting" which is the opening of girls to Scouting at the ages of 6-10. No one is disputing that coed Scouting will happen. I think we may be mixing the definitions a bit. There is a clear difference between "Family Scouting" (making Scouting coed to a degree) and "family scouting".

Since @Eagle94-A1 started the thread he should likely be the one to define what he was going for.

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Those are good terms.  

I'm confused though.  I've not heard of a "familization" change for Boy Scouts.

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