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Eagle1993

Adding Girls to Pack

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1 minute ago, NJCubScouter said:

I don't want to send this thread too far off track, but:  What is a brownie bite fire starter?  I've never heard that term.

THREAD POLICE ALERT! :)

Egg cartoon. Fill with cotton balls or lint, crushed charcoal, and pour over with melted wax. Leave a bit of the cotton out for a wick. Good fire starter...will work in light rain. Boys adopted in spite of the name and kept the name.

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One of the moms, current GSUSA leader asked “what grade do you earn that coveted Eagle”.  I explained that it has nothing to do with age or grade as there are some *shudder* 12 year olds that have earned the rank. I went through the requirements and we talked about all of the Eagle projects around town.  I then explained EBOR and she said it sounded like defending a dissertation.  

I also agree explained (a bit) about the patrol method.

The more the GSUSA members learned about the BSA program the more they saw the benefits.  

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9 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

THREAD POLICE ALERT! :)

You'll have to call the Moderator Internal Affairs Division.  :)

9 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

Egg cartoon. Fill with cotton balls or lint, crushed charcoal, and pour over with melted wax. Leave a bit of the cotton out for a wick. Good fire starter...will work in light rain. Boys adopted in spite of the name and kept the name.

Interesting. 

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2 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

We got through the discussion but I have a feeling the separate den wall will fall in the future. 

Agreed.  It's a forced unneeded and problematic idea.  Now if you have enough boys and girls in a rank to keep them separate and they want to do that, fine.  Absolutely fine.  But if you don't have the numbers and don't have the volunteers, how the heck would you make it work.  Forcing it would just diminish the scouting experience.  

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5 minutes ago, fred johnson said:

Agreed.  It's a forced unneeded and problematic idea.  Now if you have enough boys and girls in a rank to keep them separate and they want to do that, fine.  Absolutely fine.  But if you don't have the numbers and don't have the volunteers, how the heck would you make it work.  Forcing it would just diminish the scouting experience.  

I'm sure it's just a matter of time.  My guess is the most everyone will ignore it anyways.  If I recall correctly, there's reporting of who is in which den during recharter - so it seems easy to forget about.

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Just now, ParkMan said:

I'm sure it's just a matter of time.  My guess is the most everyone will ignore it anyways.  If I recall correctly, there's reporting of who is in which den during recharter - so it seems easy to forget about.

Not den.  Rank.  During recharter you make sure everyone is in the correct rank.  BSA has no idea who's in which den.

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2 minutes ago, fred johnson said:

Not den.  Rank.  During recharter you make sure everyone is in the correct rank.  BSA has no idea who's in which den.

I think we agree.  So how you structure the kids at a particular rank is not known to the BSA.  A pack doesn't even have to pretend.  Just find a male & female to run a den and give the kids the same den number.  

BTW - not suggesting that a scout leader should be dishonest or anything.  Just fully expecting that operational realities will trump the theory.

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4 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

  Just fully expecting that operational realities will trump the theory.

Absolutely.  Reality trumps rules ... ewww ... somehow I just don't feel right these days using the verb "trump".

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Update: No early adopters in my district :(

There is one early adopter in a neighbor district and we are in communication with them to join their pack. About a 20-25 minute one-way drive so not too bad but not too great either.

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1 hour ago, Eagle1993 said:

One of the moms, current GSUSA leader asked “what grade do you earn that coveted Eagle”.  I explained that it has nothing to do with age or grade as there are some *shudder* 12 year olds that have earned the rank. I went through the requirements and we talked about all of the Eagle projects around town.  I then explained EBOR and she said it sounded like defending a dissertation.  

I remember when my kid was just joining Tigers. The Pack leaders cam in and walked everyone through that first rank and the requirements. At the end of the meeting half the parents quit (and took their kids) because it was too much work for them.

I can only imagine what some of those types of parents will think about Boy Scout ranks, especially Eagle. How long before even those requirements get watered down.

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43 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

I think we agree.  So how you structure the kids at a particular rank is not known to the BSA.  A pack doesn't even have to pretend.  Just find a male & female to run a den and give the kids the same den number.  

It is my understanding that, at least in the current early-adopter program, the pack leaders are making an express commitment to the council to keep the boy dens separate from the girl dens.  Is that incorrect?

Assuming that is the case, I would question the comment that the pack wouldn't have to pretend.  The pack would be making a direct promise not to do something, and then do it anyway.

Update:  Well, here is the agreement, at least in my council: https://ppcbsa.org/wp-content/uploads/SUS-2018-Family-Scouting-unit-application-final.pdf.   I suppose it isn't as crystal-clear as I thought, but it does imply that the girls are in their own den.  I think I have seen a document that is more explicit than this, but I guess this is what the pack and den leaders actually sign.

Edited by NJCubScouter

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17 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

It is my understanding that, at least in the current early-adopter program, the pack leaders are making an express commitment to the council to keep the boy dens separate from the girl dens.  Is that incorrect?

Assuming that is the case, I would question the comment that the pack wouldn't have to pretend.  The pack would be making a direct promise not to do something, and then do it anyway.

Update:  Well, here is the agreement, at least in my council: https://ppcbsa.org/wp-content/uploads/SUS-2018-Family-Scouting-unit-application-final.pdf.   I suppose it isn't as crystal-clear as I thought, but it does imply that the girls are in their own den.  I think I have seen a document that is more explicit than this, but I guess this is what the pack and den leaders actually sign.

I'd not seen the form.  That is very specific.

Interesting to see all the hoops for and early adopter program that heads things off by 6 months or so.

 

1 minute ago, Tampa Turtle said:

But, but isn't that what the opposition said would happen and we were assured that there would be policies to keep that sort of thing from happening? Shocked. 

They should've just done it from the start.  Take your licks once and be over it.

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31 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

It is my understanding that, at least in the current early-adopter program, the pack leaders are making an express commitment to the council to keep the boy dens separate from the girl dens.  Is that incorrect?

Assuming that is the case, I would question the comment that the pack wouldn't have to pretend.  The pack would be making a direct promise not to do something, and then do it anyway.

Update:  Well, here is the agreement, at least in my council: https://ppcbsa.org/wp-content/uploads/SUS-2018-Family-Scouting-unit-application-final.pdf.   I suppose it isn't as crystal-clear as I thought, but it does imply that the girls are in their own den.  I think I have seen a document that is more explicit than this, but I guess this is what the pack and den leaders actually sign.

This was much more formal than our arrangement however the rules are consistent.  I have heard of some Packs taking in paper applications and others accepting 5th grade girls.  I’m sure some have already combined dens.

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On ‎2‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 1:01 PM, NJCubScouter said:

It is my understanding that, at least in the current early-adopter program, the pack leaders are making an express commitment to the council to keep the boy dens separate from the girl dens.  Is that incorrect?

Assuming that is the case, I would question the comment that the pack wouldn't have to pretend.  The pack would be making a direct promise not to do something, and then do it anyway.

Update:  Well, here is the agreement, at least in my council: https://ppcbsa.org/wp-content/uploads/SUS-2018-Family-Scouting-unit-application-final.pdf.   I suppose it isn't as crystal-clear as I thought, but it does imply that the girls are in their own den.  I think I have seen a document that is more explicit than this, but I guess this is what the pack and den leaders actually sign.

Thanks for posting that link.  That's our Council.  When one of our ASM's said our council was an early adopter, I thought it sounded weird.  The link makes it clear that each Pack can apply to be an early adopter.  Makes much more sense!

We've not seen anywhere near enough interest from girls for our pack to apply.  We'll have another Webelos boy as of Friday, though, and his older brother is coming to our Troop meeting tonight to check it out.

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