Female Teen a Den Leader at age 16?

[qwazse 4344]

1 hour ago, The Latin Scot said:

.... I don't give two figs for the "youngest Den Leader in history," but I am deeply concerned by a child masquerading as such. This kind of story should have people asking questions and taking action, because at the end of the day, something is amiss with this whole story, and somebody needs to get to the bottom of it ASAP.

LOL @The Latin Scot, I've seen so many adults masquerading as DLs (patch included) that a youth actually doing the job and being recognized for it hardly concerns me.

But then, in high school, my youth pastor took the age of accountability quite seriously, and 8th-12th graders were given full responsibility for classes younger students over the summer. That included leading relatively deep Bible study -- if we had read the thing at least once, as well as field sports and athletics. Our first year leading, we would have an adult partner with us, but in subsequent years we would be partnered with equally talented youth. The main advantage we had over adults was we didn't know what we didn't know! Challenges from our class during the day led to some deep conversations among ourselves in the evening.

Yes, I would like to know more details. Like, was she the only the leader in the room with the boys? What made it difficult for other parents to take point? What was her official title? When did she get it? Who suggested the "formal" recognition? Was the idea inspired by meeting scouts from other countries?

[RememberSchiff 3669]

She may be an excellent leader. I believe there is historical precedent to wait until age 19 before burning a nonconformist at the stake.

[NJCubScouter 1389]

1 hour ago, RememberSchiff said:

She may be an excellent leader. I believe there is historical precedent to wait until age 19 before burning a nonconformist at the stake.

Ha.  That 19-year-old was leading adults, not children (well, presumably...) and the YP regs were a little looser back then anyway. 

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

3 hours ago, NJCubScouter said:

 What I am not sure about are the circumstances under which one is supposed to wear the actual Silver Beaver, as opposed to just the knot.  I have not earned it, but I have known plenty of people who have, and I don't think I have ever seen one wearing it.  I suppose if one is attending an awards ceremony for new Silver Beavers, that would be one reasonable occasion on which to wear it.  I don't know when else one would do so.

 

Silver Beaver, and other awards, can be worn as "formal wear" at such occasions as Blue and Golds Banquets, Courts of Honor, District and Council Awards Banquets, etc.

Sadly, saw them worn at a funeral recently.

[NJCubScouter 1389]

2 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

 

Silver Beaver, and other awards, can be worn as "formal wear" at such occasions as Blue and Golds Banquets, Courts of Honor, District and Council Awards Banquets, etc.

Sadly, saw them worn at a funeral recently.

Those seem reasonable. And from the photo it does appear that the red-loop Scouter is presenting the girl with something, so maybe it is an awards ceremony. As for the funeral, I assume the deceased was a Silver Beaver recipient. That seems appropriate as well.

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

50+ years Scouting veteran, with 40+ years in the troop, with 20 of those as SM. He was buried in uniform, and anyone connected with the troop or district was there in uniform.

[WisconsinMomma 217]

I think this is an absolutely wonderful story.  A young person with an interest in teaching is volunteering and helping the BSA with guiding younger children, with mutual benefit.  Looking at the photo, she is not wearing a uniform, and so I'm taking this as a -- here's a teen who is helping out at meetings and at camp.  That is wonderful.  And I'm glad she is recognized for it.   Not being local, I guess I'll trust the locals to understand and follow BSA policies correctly.  

As for the title den leader, I'm assuming the reporter messed up.  

[Tampa Turtle 1011]

8 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

50+ years Scouting veteran, with 40+ years in the troop, with 20 of those as SM. He was buried in uniform, and anyone connected with the troop or district was there in uniform.

I have told Mrs Turtle that is how I want to go.

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

27 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

I  Not being local, I guess I'll trust the locals to understand and follow BSA policies correctly.  

As for the title den leader, I'm assuming the reporter messed up.  

 

Sadly, I've seen so many units do their own thing and ignore BSA policies, that I can believe a unit doing anything. Heck my own troop said they will ignore BSA upcoming policy on separate girls troops, and fully integrate girls with their own patrol. They would be a girls only paper troop.

 

In fact one of the reasons we are now accepting girls is because of rogue units IMHO.

 

10 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

I have told Mrs Turtle that is how I want to go.

SWMBO jokingly said once that she will cremate me and put my ashes in knee socks. I said "YES and bury me at these three camp...." I got 2 pairs in the safety deposit box. Currently 2 camps are within 2 hours drive, and she knows exactly where to bury me. 3rd camp is a wee bit aways,and I hope she remembers where I want to go.

 

 

 

[an_old_DC 122]

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Sadly, I've seen so many units do their own thing and ignore BSA policies, that I can believe a unit doing anything. Heck my own troop said they will ignore BSA upcoming policy on separate girls troops, and fully integrate girls with their own patrol. They would be a girls only paper troop.

In fact one of the reasons we are now accepting girls is because of rogue units IMHO.

 

 

I completely agree. I am no longer with a troop but I have heard SMs in my district talk about “paper girl troops.” I have brought this up before at Council meetings and the topic is quickly changed, so it seems everyone is aware of the possibility.

[qwazse 4344]

13 minutes ago, an_old_DC said:

I completely agree. I am no longer with a troop but I have heard SMs in my district talk about “paper girl troops.” I have brought this up before at Council meetings and the topic is quickly changed, so it seems everyone is aware of the possibility.

Oh, those youth movements that practically spawn themselves and the adults who won't say "no" to them.

[NJCubScouter 1389]

8 hours ago, WisconsinMomma said:

As for the title den leader, I'm assuming the reporter messed up.  

That is my suspicion.  There are too many hints in the article that this reporter has no knowledge of how Cub Scouting works and she is just repeating what she THINKS this 16-year-old girl said.  

Once upon a time, I was a newspaper reporter.  If I had written an article in which the ONLY source was a 16-year-old girl, especially where the story was based on what she was saying about herself, I suspect (and hope) that my editor would have said to me, Can't you find at least ONE adult to talk to for this story?

[RememberSchiff 3669]

3 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

That is my suspicion.  There are too many hints in the article that this reporter has no knowledge of how Cub Scouting works and she is just repeating what she THINKS this 16-year-old girl said.  

Once upon a time, I was a newspaper reporter.  If I had written an article in which the ONLY source was a 16-year-old girl, especially where the story was based on what she was saying about herself, I suspect (and hope) that my editor would have said to me, Can't you find at least ONE adult to talk to for this story?

I dunno. An editor, perhaps desperate for some happy news, is contacted by a freelance reporter who is selling a human interest story with a supporting photo?

The truth is out there.

[NJCubScouter 1389]

3 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

I dunno. An editor, perhaps desperate for some happy news, is contacted by a freelance reporter who is selling a human interest story with a supporting photo?

Well, even so.  By early-80s standards, anyway.  I don't know about today.  Well, actually I sort of do.  From what I can see, in local newspaperdom there has been an increasing emphasis on the readers writing the news, or in other words, the newspaper has a miniscule staff compared to 30 years ago and those who remain cannot possibly cover the community themselves, so they run a lot more press releases, etc. with not enough verification of the facts. So, sure, that could be an explanation for this.

3 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

The truth is out there.

These days I increasingly wish that more of the truth were "here" rather than "out there." 

[The Latin Scot 961]

11 hours ago, WisconsinMomma said:

I think this is an absolutely wonderful story.  A young person with an interest in teaching is volunteering and helping the BSA with guiding younger children, with mutual benefit.  Looking at the photo, she is not wearing a uniform, and so I'm taking this as a -- here's a teen who is helping out at meetings and at camp.  That is wonderful.  And I'm glad she is recognized for it.   Not being local, I guess I'll trust the locals to understand and follow BSA policies correctly.  

As for the title den leader, I'm assuming the reporter messed up.  

Yes, and here is the crucial problem. Is it a "wonderful story?" Maybe, to some eyes. But it's terrible journalism, and it ends up spreading untruths and misconceptions about the BSA under the auspices of that "wonderful story." People get distracted by the lovely idea of a young person volunteering and making a difference, and ignore the bigger problem - that "the reporter messed up." This child cannot legally be a den leader; it would not only violate basic BSA policy, but by violating the Young Protection model, it actually means that the children involved are at risk - if this girl really is acting as a den leader, that could mean there is no legal adults supervising the children, and it would take nothing to get a lawsuit slapped onto that unit, district, council, et cetera. People are so busy feeling how cute it is for this girl that they aren't thinking about the consequences of this kind of oversight. The recognition the girl is receiving is nothing more than empty praise; the attention the BSA is getting, however, could end up getting everybody involved into trouble. 

Should the girl be encouraged to continue volunteering? Sure. But this kind of publicity, filled with misinformation and saccharine attention-getting, serves nobody. It should not be encouraged, and somebody needs to get this reporter's story straight ASAP before the units involved start getting into trouble. This girl could face serious consequences even if she is acting as a den leader without legally meeting to qualifications to do so.