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RememberSchiff

Ireland seeks Eagle now before she ages out

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I believe she is already old to achieve Eagle, unless National decides to count previous work or waive requirements. If she isn't already too old, she will be within a matter of days.

I have seen articles with her over the last couple of years. I remember seeing articles that she had turned 16 in late Spring or early Summer. The only article I can find, at the moment doing a quick search, was published 6/28/17 and stated she was 16 years old at the time.

If she started today, should could not achieve Tenderfoot before January 16th, She could not reach First Class before February 15th, Star before June 15th, Life on Dec 15th and Eagle on June 15th. So assuming the article was correct that on June 28th she was already 16, she has at best, less than 2 weeks before it is impossible for her to attain Eagle.

While I support the new policy, I have never supported Miss Ireland because of the arguments she has used. The initial articles focused on her desire to get Eagle and how it looked on a college resume. I have never liked it when any Scout's first and primary focus is to attain Eagle solely as a resume item.

Later stories focused on leadership and training, but the leadership and training opportunities she said she was missing were available in both Venturing and Scouts Canada. This story has felt all along as if the skills and opportunities she could gain from scouting was far far less important that having something she could stick on a resume. Perhaps, I am wrong, but if so the media has done her a injustice and I have not seen her or her parents racing to correct that injustice.

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On 12/15/2017 at 9:55 AM, an_old_DC said:

Maybe I’m thinking of a different girl and Boy Scout troop, but hasn’t the Troop Ireland tagged along with held BORs for her and submitted advancement reports that were rejected and sent back? Somebody has been telling her she “unofficially” earned ranks, right?

From the linked article:
"In fact, Sydney will soon sit in front of a board of review and ask for approval to move up the second rank of Boy Scouts, to Tenderfoot. Of course, that’ll be unofficial, too."

https://www.outsideonline.com/2196356/why-girl-wants-become-boy-scout

I am not sure if those records are being submitted to the Council, but the CO is clearly playing along with concept.

 

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From that same article:

”Like a lot of troops, 414’s scoutmaster is one of the moms. She submits Sydney’s applications for membership and rank advancement to the BSA every time, despite knowing that each will be rejected.”

these are all rogue units just doing whatever the leaders want. It makes me wonder what other BSA policies they just choose to ignore.

Shame on all these leaders letting her tag along and “unofficially” earn ranks since she was 4.

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Both Second Class and First Class rank requirements #1.a both state the same first two words.  "Since joining...."

Troop 414 is seriously out of bounds with their political pencil whipping agenda.

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11 hours ago, Stosh said:

Troop 414 is seriously out of bounds with their political pencil whipping agenda.

Can’t argue with that, but I find it interesting that someone who has labeled himself a “BSA Heretic” is not more sympathetic toward others who blaze their own path.

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If the young lady comes from a well-connected family, I'd think she hardly needs Eagle Scout on her pre-college resume to achieve her life goals. Women have been achieving great accomplishments sans Eagle Scout designations... for all of history.  I hope the effort to join early is not political, and really just a true desire to have the full experience.  Anyway, it's not my circus or clowns.

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On 12/14/2017 at 9:40 AM, Jameson76 said:

If they bend the rules for her, then why not change the whole 18 years old and out (seems arbitrary...right?).  Maybe make retro Eagles for those that never attained the rank.   I mean maybe the young man (or woman) could not find a troop that fit their needs.  So let's make an exception.  Maybe they were ADHD and could not effectively track the 12 weeks of chores so they did not complete Family Life...so let's make an exception.  They were really busy and never were able to get to a city council meeting so they never got Cit in the Community back in the day, so let's make an exception.  Etc Etc Etc

This girl doesn't want to be a Scout, she wants to be an Eagle

YEP

 

After all, 18 is the new 12, right?

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On 12/14/2017 at 8:52 AM, Stosh said:

This girl doesn't want to be a Scout, she wants to be an Eagle

Given the fact that she has been participating in two troops (one in NY and one in Canada), even before there was any indication that the BSA would open up Eagle to young women anywhere near her time as a youth, it appears that she wants both - the same as many boys.

Which doesn’t mean she can have both, if she misses the cutoff, even though it’s through no fault of her own

13 hours ago, Stosh said:

I didn't pick the name. 

Nor did I pick Stosh.

Did someone hack your account?

Edited by NJCubScouter
  • Upvote 1

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We have very few formal "rules" in this forum.  The forum owner, @SCOUTER-Terry, prefers that the formal "rules" be kept to a minimum, leaving the moderators to handle things mostly on the principle of "common sense."  I think it is "common sense" that the only people with "Moderator" in their "titles" should be Moderators.  That is why I edited Stosh's profile.  

Terry has also stated on a number of occasions that complaints about the Moderators should be addressed directly to him in a private message or email, and not posted in the forum.  Based on those statements, regardless of whether you call it a "rule" or not, there should be no further discussion of this subject.

Please go back to discussing the subject of whether young women should be permitted to join Boy Scouts now if necessary for them to make Eagle.  Since the posts have been nearly-unanimously in the negative, I am not sure what else there is to discuss.  But if there is, go ahead.  If there is further off-topic discussion, this thread will be locked.

  • Upvote 2

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As suggested by several members, the side discussion about using "moderator" in a display name was moved to  Forum Support.

That discussion was  then locked per @NJCubScouter .

 

Edited by RememberSchiff

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I do not see the BSA offering (nor should they) Ireland Eagle (given the number of other girls that could also claim the same circumstances).   

I have heard of at least one Troop in Illinois who currently has unofficial girl members   They are filling out blue cards, keeping track of activities, etc.  Their plan is to create Troop 123B with identical leadership as their current Troop   That Troop will have girls and would meet the same time and place as Troop 123.   As soon as girls are allowed in, they plan to sign off on all the blue cards and provide merit badges and the appropriate rank.  That could mean they will have a girl earn Eagle in less than a year after joining.  I do wonder how the EBOR would handle these situations.   I could see this as the real transition challenge vs the Ireland situation.

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

I do not see the BSA offering (nor should they) Ireland Eagle (given the number of other girls that could also claim the same circumstances).   

I have heard of at least one Troop in Illinois who currently has unofficial girl members   They are filling out blue cards, keeping track of activities, etc.  Their plan is to create Troop 123B with identical leadership as their current Troop   That Troop will have girls and would meet the same time and place as Troop 123.   As soon as girls are allowed in, they plan to sign off on all the blue cards and provide merit badges and the appropriate rank.  That could mean they will have a girl earn Eagle in less than a year after joining.  I do wonder how the EBOR would handle these situations.   I could see this as the real transition challenge vs the Ireland situation.

In theory, it shouldn't even get to an EBOR.  The Eagle Application requires that the dates of the BOR's for First Class, Star and Life be provided.  I believe the Eagle registrars at council (title probably varies among councils) actually do check the dates before signing, which is required in order to get an EBOR scheduled.  The dates need to be 4 months apart for First Class-Star, and six months apart for Star-Life and Life-Eagle.  That's a total of one year four months, and that's not even counting the time to complete the requirements from joining to First Class, so "less than a year" won't do it.  Unless you are suggesting that someone is going to fake the dates and that the SMs and Committee Chairs are going to sign the App with the fake dates.

(Unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying.)

How the EBOR's will handle it, if the young woman does get to that point?  Well, I know how I will handle it if I find myself in such a position, which is entirely possible.  Someone who obviously cannot have met the requirements does not get approved.  Council and National can overrule the EBOR if they want, but National says the "locals" cannot add to or subtract from the requirements, and that is what I do - or don't do - you know what I mean.

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I think their plan is the min wait periods so you are correct it would be longer than 1 year.  I guess my question would be regarding girls who completed the requirements for merit badges prior to official membership during the EBOR.  For example, if their record shows they earned 10-15 merit badges within 1 month of joining BSA.  Technically they performed the requirements, but before officially becoming a member.  I imagine this will be occurring across the US as Troops race to have the first female Eagle Scouts, and I’m curious how EBORs will handle it.  I think this will be a much more common situation than the Ireland one.

 

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23 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

I think their plan is the min wait periods so you are correct it would be longer than 1 year.  I guess my question would be regarding girls who completed the requirements for merit badges prior to official membership during the EBOR.  For example, if their record shows they earned 10-15 merit badges within 1 month of joining BSA.  Technically they performed the requirements, but before officially becoming a member.  I imagine this will be occurring across the US as Troops race to have the first female Eagle Scouts, and I’m curious how EBORs will handle it.  I think this will be a much more common situation than the Ireland one.

 

Well, if they have Family Life, Personal Management and/or Personal Fitness (or Camping, for that matter) completed within one month of joining, that's a problem.

Other than that, how many merit badges can a person earn in a month (or whatever) before it becomes physically impossible?  I have no idea.  Hopefully it is not something that I will ever have to decide.

On the other hand, I am sure the BSA will issue helpful and detailed guidance on the subject so those of us toiling in the fields will not have to guess. <sarcasm off>

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