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RememberSchiff

Ireland seeks Eagle now before she ages out

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So much for a Scout is Trustworthy.  I'm thinking that most galas have the Red Carpet at the front door, not at the service door in the back.  But then again, I could be wrong.

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11 hours ago, Back Pack said:

Yes it does. Have guys gotten their Eagle because they were In Eagle mills? Yes. That’s way different than breaking, not bending, the rules for this girl. It makes my accomplishment worthless because I worked 7 long years, lead a troop through four years as SPL and Jasm and  [edit] they GAVE it to her because of her gender. That makes the award meaningless because they just given it away. 

If you work 80 hours a week for your money and I work 2 hours a week for the same pay is that fair? Do you not feel cheated? Cmon. 

Oddly, that's what nearly every ambitious girl, atheist, (and in the late 90's, newly minted homosexual), and 18+ year-old says. They would like to be recognized for their work.

Their claim is that, right now, you are being cheated, because your badge doesn't recognized what you've accomplished. It recognizes what you've accomplished, but only while being of a particular identity. The it's saying, "You did pretty good, for a boy."

(Before anyone balks. Check that this isn't what you'd say about a GS/USA Gold awardee.)

This isn't merely BSA's fault. GS/USA abandoned the "First Class Scout" award. For all of Mike Saurbaugh's pleasant reminisces about working with the campfire program, he's never highlighted a WoLeHo awardee. NESA never broadened its scope to honor Venturing Silver or Sea Scout Quatermaster awardees.

We Eagles are one of a pantheon of folks who worked at leadership development and building their character, but NOBODY in our organization would tell us that. In a sense, these girls are finally putting clothes on the emperor.

Edited by qwazse
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2 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

Sydney takes scouting and the skills involved so seriously that she has sought membership in troops outside the U.S. She is a full, dues-paying member of a troop in Ontario, Canada — one of dozens of countries with co-ed scouting. In fact, Sydney recently earned the Chief Scout's Award, Canada's highest honor in scouting, and has the badge and a letter of congratulations from Prime Minister Justin Trudeau to show for it.

But she is determined to become an Eagle Scout as a full member of Troop 414, reaching the top achievement of an organization she has been part of nearly her entire life.

 

Based on this, then I can certainly see a way for BSA to allow for "transfer credits" (and they might already do this) for any Scout that earned "stuff" outside of the United States but still within Scouting to obtain Eagle.

For example, if she has satisfied the exact same leadership requirements in Canadian Scouts, then there is no reason IMO that she need duplicate them in BSA.

 

I would assume that we would extend the same courtesy to a male scout that currently lives in England but that transfers to the United States at 16. Credit for requirements already accomplished.

Such doesn't cheapen what anyone else had to do.

Hawkwin

Who received quite a bit of transfer college credit for his military service - cutting over a year from his degree.

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Guide to Advancement section 5.0.4.0 Covers "Youth From Other Countries," but considering she is a US citizen, I do not think it will apply. BUT if BSA decides to allow her credit for any advancement up to Life, then that is their loophole.

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34 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Guide to Advancement section 5.0.4.0 Covers "Youth From Other Countries"

Thanks, I assumed there would be a rule on such.

Seems like there is a good process for such a request, the hiccup of course will be,

 

Quote

 

Youth from other countries who temporarily reside in the United States, or have moved here, may register in a BSA unit and participate in advancement.

 

There really isn't a policy for scouts who reside in the United States but who are Scouts in another country. That being stated, it would appear that the spirit of the rule still applies in that BSA wishes to honor and recognize achievement (excluding Eagle) of current scouts where they participated and in and acquired advancement in foreign scouting.

 

If she had not being actively involved in Canadian Scouts (or whatever they call themselves), then a firm "no" would seem to apply. Since she has done everything a male scout from Canada has done and since we would likely recognize his achievements, then it stands to reason we could, and probably should, do the same for her.

 

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The old guard protectors of the Eagle award and past history and traditions are holding onto their own glory.  Obdurate objections to a changing world will not do anybody any good, and may give some psychologists and ulcer doctors more work.  

Move with the times and find ways to make current challenges fit your involvement, hopefully to the overall benefit of all.  As noted, life is seldom always fair.  Whatever comes from all this, it can be positive or negative, however one chooses to view it.  

How will this affect any of us as time goes by.  Our own Scouting accomplishments will not be nullified by new directions and changes in options.  Just as in sports, the rules change over time.  You cannot ever compare records from a century ago in baseball, for example, as the rules and equipment are different.  I never did a project as it was not yet required, but I did have to learn signalling and splicing among other skills.  As has been noted, Arthur Eldred never had to earn First Aid and it seems from looking at his sash and such that he did not, though First Aid to Animals is there.  For that matter, he also did not have to earn Life or Star, as a few others of the very earliest also did not have to do.  Does that change their place in BSA history?  

 

As I have "preached" a few times already, we either accept the inevitable and make it the best we can with the new parameters, or we choose to leave it to the new order.  But letting it eat at us because we disagree, and bad mouthing the new order probably is not our most Scouting choice.

 

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I believe she is already old to achieve Eagle, unless National decides to count previous work or waive requirements. If she isn't already too old, she will be within a matter of days.

I have seen articles with her over the last couple of years. I remember seeing articles that she had turned 16 in late Spring or early Summer. The only article I can find, at the moment doing a quick search, was published 6/28/17 and stated she was 16 years old at the time.

If she started today, should could not achieve Tenderfoot before January 16th, She could not reach First Class before February 15th, Star before June 15th, Life on Dec 15th and Eagle on June 15th. So assuming the article was correct that on June 28th she was already 16, she has at best, less than 2 weeks before it is impossible for her to attain Eagle.

While I support the new policy, I have never supported Miss Ireland because of the arguments she has used. The initial articles focused on her desire to get Eagle and how it looked on a college resume. I have never liked it when any Scout's first and primary focus is to attain Eagle solely as a resume item.

Later stories focused on leadership and training, but the leadership and training opportunities she said she was missing were available in both Venturing and Scouts Canada. This story has felt all along as if the skills and opportunities she could gain from scouting was far far less important that having something she could stick on a resume. Perhaps, I am wrong, but if so the media has done her a injustice and I have not seen her or her parents racing to correct that injustice.

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On 12/15/2017 at 9:55 AM, an_old_DC said:

Maybe I’m thinking of a different girl and Boy Scout troop, but hasn’t the Troop Ireland tagged along with held BORs for her and submitted advancement reports that were rejected and sent back? Somebody has been telling her she “unofficially” earned ranks, right?

From the linked article:
"In fact, Sydney will soon sit in front of a board of review and ask for approval to move up the second rank of Boy Scouts, to Tenderfoot. Of course, that’ll be unofficial, too."

https://www.outsideonline.com/2196356/why-girl-wants-become-boy-scout

I am not sure if those records are being submitted to the Council, but the CO is clearly playing along with concept.

 

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From that same article:

”Like a lot of troops, 414’s scoutmaster is one of the moms. She submits Sydney’s applications for membership and rank advancement to the BSA every time, despite knowing that each will be rejected.”

these are all rogue units just doing whatever the leaders want. It makes me wonder what other BSA policies they just choose to ignore.

Shame on all these leaders letting her tag along and “unofficially” earn ranks since she was 4.

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Both Second Class and First Class rank requirements #1.a both state the same first two words.  "Since joining...."

Troop 414 is seriously out of bounds with their political pencil whipping agenda.

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11 hours ago, Stosh said:

Troop 414 is seriously out of bounds with their political pencil whipping agenda.

Can’t argue with that, but I find it interesting that someone who has labeled himself a “BSA Heretic” is not more sympathetic toward others who blaze their own path.

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