Jump to content
RememberSchiff

Ireland seeks Eagle now before she ages out

Recommended Posts

I mentioned this discussion with Mrs Turtle and she was amazed it took me this long to realize that some new folks might game the system or make an appeal to grab the college resume credential even if they are joining too late because we have become the 'everyone wins a trophy' nation. She has seen this with the younger parents in the activities she is involved in. 

BSA national talks a lot about character issues and the iconography and legend of the traditional scout but has so over-emphasized the Eagle rank as the goal with an implied *wink wink* 'it looks good on resumes too' that will eat us alive. Mrs Turtle said it will not end until about a 1/3rd of scouts get Eagle and it becomes meaningless. I think many folks at the local level have fallen into this trap as well..Eagle COH as coronations, big banquets, special merchandise, even the "Eagle Scout fir Life" thing gets out of hand. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Sentinel947 said:

I don't know where this idea came from (probably the BSA.) But it does harm to people and to the program. 

Eagle Scout is not some silver bullet for teenagers. If your grades suck, Eagle Scout won't get you into college. If you bomb your interview, Eagle Scout will not get you the job. As a corporate recruiter myself, I don't look for Eagle Scouts, I look for candidates who are qualified to do the job, and if they happen to be Eagle Scouts, then we chat about that after the serious stuff is out of the way. 

Eagle Scout is valuable not because it will cause other people to think better of the Eagle Scout, but because of the personal journey of growth being in a Troop for 2-6 years can have. Can it help you in an interview or college admissions? Possibly, but you have to be qualified already. 

Just like "Go to college so you can get a good job" sets young people up to have a useless degree, tons of debt, disappointment and a minimum wage job. "Eagle will get you places in life" means parents will help their sons get Eagle at any cost, and the cost is what we actually want our Scouts to learn: liife skills, leadership, teamwork, ethical decisionmaking, love of country, and respect for creation. 

ditto, amen, I concur. At best Eagle might get you a pause in the screening process or a pass if they wondered why you were not more active in other extra circulars. It helped Son#1 apply for college because he is a nerd and it made him look a little more rounded. Playing a sport would have worked too. Scouts (not the Eagle) has helped him because it gave him enough material for about four different personal essays he has had to write as part of the college process. But other life experiences might have helped too. The Eagle did help him in a few personal interviews networking (with Monks and Priests of all people -- he is studying theology) because they were in scouts as boys too and apparently the same issues you have with your buddies at summer camp still come up in a monastery! 

Son#2 has started looking at colleges too...he is really into the tech thing and visited a obscure experimental we do nothing but programming and build stuff college. Of the 6 guys in the orientation group 4 were Eagle Scouts so it helped as a 'tribe identifier' but no great advantage except to show that he is a two-dimensional geek.

In both cases it has helped them qualify for some very modest scholarships ($500-1000) nice to have but not life changing.

Given how some voracious some of the families in our Troop are to get Eagle for 'ticket punching' I think it would be easier for them to do to the Lacrosse sport thing or rowing crew credential. That would at least leave me with the families that really want their boy to learn some life skills, leadership, and make friends.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Sentinel947 said:

I don't know where this idea came from (probably the BSA.) But it does harm to people and to the program. 

Eagle Scout is not some silver bullet for teenagers. If your grades suck, Eagle Scout won't get you into college. If you bomb your interview, Eagle Scout will not get you the job. As a corporate recruiter myself, I don't look for Eagle Scouts, I look for candidates who are qualified to do the job, and if they happen to be Eagle Scouts, then we chat about that after the serious stuff is out of the way. 

Eagle Scout is valuable not because it will cause other people to think better of the Eagle Scout, but because of the personal journey of growth being in a Troop for 2-6 years can have. Can it help you in an interview or college admissions? Possibly, but you have to be qualified already. 

Just like "Go to college so you can get a good job" sets young people up to have a useless degree, tons of debt, disappointment and a minimum wage job. "Eagle will get you places in life" means parents will help their sons get Eagle at any cost, and the cost is what we actually want our Scouts to learn: liife skills, leadership, teamwork, ethical decisionmaking, love of country, and respect for creation. 

I wonder if Gary is an Eagle Scout and what benefits he perceives he's received by earning it. 

As a recent Eagle I can back this up. No college I visited cared about Eagle. No college interviewer asked about it but they did ask about what I did in scouts. No job I’ve had really considered Eagle that much of a big deal. The internship I have now only asked me about Eagle because the guy interviewing me was a scoutmaster. Only scouting related jobs ever asked me about Eagle. My friends who are eagles have similar stories. I am fine with this. I climbed scouting’s Everest but it’s not like I’m going to use that to introduce myself at parties. It helped make me who I am but it’s not who I am, if that makes any sense. Off to biology. 

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, NJCubScouter said:

Leaving aside the question whether that is ever true, it is not true in this forum.

And yet we have a "down arrow" feature and people use it. Some might say that the existence, and use, of the down arrow is equally as Un-scoutlike as anything said or discussed so far.

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sentinel947 said:

Eagle Scout is not some silver bullet for teenagers. If your grades suck, Eagle Scout won't get you into college. If you bomb your interview, Eagle Scout will not get you the job. As a corporate recruiter myself, I don't look for Eagle Scouts, I look for candidates who are qualified to do the job, and if they happen to be Eagle Scouts, then we chat about that after the serious stuff is out of the way. 

I double down on this statement by saying that the BEST Scouters I have ever met are NOT Eagle Scouts. Many were guys who quit at various points in their Scouting career and came back to Scouting for their sons or daughters (Venturing). For whatever reason -- maybe to make up for what they walked away from, maybe to pay homage to a mentor, maybe they never had the opportunity to be Scouts, etc., -- these men (and women) are some of the best Scouters I know.

Not Eagles. Not AOL recipients. No Wood Badge. No OA. Just good, solid leaders who take their role seriously, train hard and work for the boys.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, an_old_DC said:

I get a down vote for reprinting part of a CBS article? LOL

It was downvoting the sentiment of the article and her statement, not you.  I removed it. ;) 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The great irony here is that because of who she is as a figure in this whole sea of change, that will carry far more weight than Eagle Scout on any application or resume .  She will either be heralded as a hero and rubber stamped her application, or castigated as a villain and buried at the bottom of the pile.  Having "Eagle Scout" on her paperwork at this point has little relevance in her college aspirations, even littler than what current Eagle Scouts experience. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

I double down on this statement by saying that the BEST Scouters I have ever met are NOT Eagle Scouts. Many were guys who quit at various points in their Scouting career and came back to Scouting for their sons or daughters (Venturing). For whatever reason -- maybe to make up for what they walked away from, maybe to pay homage to a mentor, maybe they never had the opportunity to be Scouts, etc., -- these men (and women) are some of the best Scouters I know.

Not Eagles. Not AOL recipients. No Wood Badge. No OA. Just good, solid leaders who take their role seriously, train hard and work for the boys.

You're definitely not alone in that sentiment. 

My Troop is about to have it's 4th Scoutmaster since I joined in 2005. None were Eagles. 3/4 Took Wood Badge at some point during their tenure, but only one (the most recent) had Wood Badge before he became SM. All are exceptional, dedicated men. 

We've had a good handful of ASMs or Committee members (myself included) that earned Eagle, and it's been pretty good for the most part but I think each of them who were/are great in their roles would have been regardless of whether or not they were Eagles

I think you and I share the same opinion. Could Wood Badge or Eagle be helpful to being a good Scouter? Yea, it could be. Is it a guarantee somebody will be a good Scouter? No, it's not. Do you have to be an Eagle or go to Wood Badge to be a good Scouter? No. Definitely not. 

Edited by Sentinel947
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Gwaihir said:

It was downvoting the sentiment of the article and her statement, not you.  I removed it. ;) 

Thanks. :)

...and I understood

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Col. Flagg said:

And yet we have a "down arrow" feature and people use it. Some might say that the existence, and use, of the down arrow is equally as Un-scoutlike as anything said or discussed so far.

"Some might say" that, but I think they would be incorrect.  I am not a huge fan of the "down arrow" and I don't think I have ever used it on purpose (under the old software I gave accidental arrows in both directions, and you couldn't change it.)  But the use of the down arrow does NOT imply an "attack" on a person or group.  It implies a disagreement with the opinion expressed in the post.  (By the way, if I thought the down arrow did imply an attack, rather than a disagreement with an opinion, I would recommend to the forum owner that the down arrow be disabled, if that is possible.)

The distinction between an attack on a person or group, and a disagreement with an opinion, is (generally speaking) one of the dividing lines between "un-Scoutlike" and "Scoutlike", respectively.  (I say "generally speaking" because there are probably some exceptions going either way, but I think it is a good general principle.  To be clear, it is possible to express a disagreement with an opinion in an "un-Scoutlike" manner, and I am not inviting anyone to do so.

It is sometimes difficult to determine whether a post is Scoutlike or un-Scoutlike, and the line becomes somewhat more blurred in Issues and Politics.  That's why the moderators get the Big Money.  (That's a joke.)  But wherever the line might be, and however a particular post might be classified, un-Scoutlike posts are not acceptable in this forum.

Edited by NJCubScouter
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, HelpfulTracks said:

That begs the question. Is calling someone un-scoutlike because you disagree with them, well.......un-scoutlike.

Follow the Scout Oath and Law and you should be fine.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×