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Ireland seeks Eagle now before she ages out

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Much like replacing facts with emotion, replacing objective standards with relative ones never ends well. The end result is a morass from which it gets increasingly difficult, then impossible, to extract yourself from.

 

 

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18 minutes ago, EmberMike said:

I've sent my letters in support of Sydney and I stand by my statments here and in those letters.

Based on this thread I can say that I'm infinitely more supportive of the Irelands than I am of some of the sentiments expressed here, and certainly the jabs at the family because of their financial status or various other personal or professional aspects of their lives, not to mention the ripping apart of Sydney's motivations to earn Eagle, something I doubt very many boys are ever subjected to.  

Occasionally this forum strikes me as one of the most un-scout-like environments a person could encounter. This thread is certainly a case study in that phenomenon. 

Good for you, we are all entitled to our opinion.

Based on the comments and tactics of the Ireland's, I don't think it unreasonable or un-Scoutllike, to be circumspect of the request for special considerations. If it is then I will gladly wear that mantle.

Enough of this nonsense, I need to go do that Googly thing and figure out what a Linked-in is and what a resume if for.

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17 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

Sometimes Scouts need to be un-scout-like to defend what is theirs. 

Leaving aside the question whether that is ever true, it is not true in this forum.

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2 hours ago, Col. Flagg said:

Sometimes Scouts need to be un-scout-like to defend what is theirs. 

Sometimes being Trustworthy,  and Loyal will appear to others as being unKind or unFriendly to others. Sometimes being Helpful will make you appear disCourteous and unKind. And I can go on and on.

I do my best to live up to the Oath and Law. But try to insult or hurt My Scouts you need to watch out. I personally think allowing girls into Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts is the worse mistake ever, and one that is irrevocable unlike 1972's Improved Scout Program. I think it will hurt boys, and even the CSE made comments to that effect. That is why they want a separate girls program.

But we all know that a separate but equal program will not work. BSA IMHO is compounding this mistake.

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Gary Ireland (her father): "The Eagle rank gets you into colleges and gets you, it is one of the few things you can put on your resume from high school that will help you get a job. There are companies that look for Eagle Scouts."....."We need the international community to put pressure on the Scouts."

 

So he sent her of to South Africa to pursue that resume bump.

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2 hours ago, NJCubScouter said:

Leaving aside the question whether that is ever true, it is not true in this forum.

How manny scouts are former military or cops or politicians. It’s impossible to be Scout like all the time so yes it would be true that you can’t be Scout like all the time. We try to be but can’t always be. 

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14 hours ago, numbersnerd said:

Much like replacing facts with emotion, replacing objective standards with relative ones never ends well. The end result is a morass from which it gets increasingly difficult, then impossible, to extract yourself from.

That's what I've been saying about what happens as long as rank advancement is muddled with identity as much as achievement. Thanks for making my point for me.

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16 hours ago, numbersnerd said:

Much like replacing facts with emotion, replacing objective standards with relative ones never ends well. The end result is a morass from which it gets increasingly difficult, then impossible, to extract yourself from.

 

 

I had to read that a couple times before I realized I agreed with that. :) signed..the plodding turtle of orthodoxy.

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I mentioned this discussion with Mrs Turtle and she was amazed it took me this long to realize that some new folks might game the system or make an appeal to grab the college resume credential even if they are joining too late because we have become the 'everyone wins a trophy' nation. She has seen this with the younger parents in the activities she is involved in. 

BSA national talks a lot about character issues and the iconography and legend of the traditional scout but has so over-emphasized the Eagle rank as the goal with an implied *wink wink* 'it looks good on resumes too' that will eat us alive. Mrs Turtle said it will not end until about a 1/3rd of scouts get Eagle and it becomes meaningless. I think many folks at the local level have fallen into this trap as well..Eagle COH as coronations, big banquets, special merchandise, even the "Eagle Scout fir Life" thing gets out of hand. 

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10 minutes ago, Sentinel947 said:

I don't know where this idea came from (probably the BSA.) But it does harm to people and to the program. 

Eagle Scout is not some silver bullet for teenagers. If your grades suck, Eagle Scout won't get you into college. If you bomb your interview, Eagle Scout will not get you the job. As a corporate recruiter myself, I don't look for Eagle Scouts, I look for candidates who are qualified to do the job, and if they happen to be Eagle Scouts, then we chat about that after the serious stuff is out of the way. 

Eagle Scout is valuable not because it will cause other people to think better of the Eagle Scout, but because of the personal journey of growth being in a Troop for 2-6 years can have. Can it help you in an interview or college admissions? Possibly, but you have to be qualified already. 

Just like "Go to college so you can get a good job" sets young people up to have a useless degree, tons of debt, disappointment and a minimum wage job. "Eagle will get you places in life" means parents will help their sons get Eagle at any cost, and the cost is what we actually want our Scouts to learn: liife skills, leadership, teamwork, ethical decisionmaking, love of country, and respect for creation. 

ditto, amen, I concur. At best Eagle might get you a pause in the screening process or a pass if they wondered why you were not more active in other extra circulars. It helped Son#1 apply for college because he is a nerd and it made him look a little more rounded. Playing a sport would have worked too. Scouts (not the Eagle) has helped him because it gave him enough material for about four different personal essays he has had to write as part of the college process. But other life experiences might have helped too. The Eagle did help him in a few personal interviews networking (with Monks and Priests of all people -- he is studying theology) because they were in scouts as boys too and apparently the same issues you have with your buddies at summer camp still come up in a monastery! 

Son#2 has started looking at colleges too...he is really into the tech thing and visited a obscure experimental we do nothing but programming and build stuff college. Of the 6 guys in the orientation group 4 were Eagle Scouts so it helped as a 'tribe identifier' but no great advantage except to show that he is a two-dimensional geek.

In both cases it has helped them qualify for some very modest scholarships ($500-1000) nice to have but not life changing.

Given how some voracious some of the families in our Troop are to get Eagle for 'ticket punching' I think it would be easier for them to do to the Lacrosse sport thing or rowing crew credential. That would at least leave me with the families that really want their boy to learn some life skills, leadership, and make friends.

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