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RememberSchiff

Ireland seeks Eagle now before she ages out

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Well we knew this was coming...

A Bridgehampton teen who has advocated tirelessly for years for the right for young women to join Boy Scouts saw victory recently — but, sadly, by the time girls are allowed to join Boy Scout troops in 2019, she will have aged out of the program.

To that end, her father Gary Ireland and the rest of Sydney Ireland's family are urging people to write to Boy Scout President Randall Stephenson and Chief Scout Executive Michael Surbaugh and ask them to allow Sydney "to join the organization immediately so that she can have the opportunity to work towards the Eagle Rank. . . Please give her the opportunity to be part of the change and finish what she started," Ireland wrote.

Source link with email addresses:

https://patch.com/new-york/southampton/teen-who-fought-girls-join-boy-scouts-seeks-earn-eagle

So if she and her family are successful, maybe there will be "soft launches" in some Scout troops soon or maybe a full path to Eagle will be implemented in Venturing.

Could be a win-win.

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And this is the classic example of why this whole thing isn't working.  This girl doesn't want to be a Scout, she wants to be an Eagle, and the parent's agenda is solely focused on THEIR child getting something and have no interest in what's best for anyone else.  Game on! (and there's no such thing as a win-win in any game.)

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As I recall, she has been a scout in Canada and a Venturer in US. Her family is heavily involved in Scouting; her brother is an Eagle. As she said earlier ,  "I am 16 and have been an unofficial member of the Boy Scouts for 12 years. I tagged along with my older brother, wearing the same uniforms, earning badges and learning to camp along with the other boys. ... For the past four years, I have been publicly advocating for girls to be admitted as full members of the Boy Scouts. ."

Seems to fit the new narrative coming from National, so a win for National and a win for her.  I imagine National is giving serious thought if they should "select" the first female Eagle or leave it to chance.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/im-a-girl-ive-been-part-of-the-boy-scouts-for-years-its-time-i-become-a-member/2017/08/25/a6d61ea8-89c1-11e7-961d-2f373b3977ee_story.html

 

 

Edited by RememberSchiff

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Either way, it makes good press for a struggling program.  I'm sure the win-win means National and the girl.  What about the rest of the program?

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If they bend the rules to accommodate the first girl there is going to be a lot of screaming and yelling from our Troop's Scouts and Scout parents about how we and BSA have been making THEM jump through all these hoops without exception. How will they react? I think a few may quit in discuss but more likely adults will relent and grease the skids for those boys remaining. She may have been doing the same things but she was not a legal scout, sorry. My son#2 just aged out and wants to continue being a Boy Scout, not an adult leader, not a venturer, but the rules say 18 and out. 

Awarding this girl an Eagle is also not fair to the families who wanted girls to become Eagles but were waiting for the doors to finally open.

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7 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

If they bend the rules to accommodate the first girl there is going to be a lot of screaming and yelling from our Troop's Scouts and Scout parents about how we and BSA have been making THEM jump through all these hoops without exception. How will they react? I think a few may quit in discuss but more likely adults will relent and grease the skids for those boys remaining. She may have been doing the same things but she was not a legal scout, sorry. My son#2 just aged out and wants to continue being a Boy Scout, not an adult leader, not a venturer, but the rules say 18 and out. 

Awarding this girl an Eagle is also not fair to the families who wanted girls to become Eagles but were waiting for the doors to finally open.

If they bend the rules for her, then why not change the whole 18 years old and out (seems arbitrary...right?).  Maybe make retro Eagles for those that never attained the rank.   I mean maybe the young man (or woman) could not find a troop that fit their needs.  So let's make an exception.  Maybe they were ADHD and could not effectively track the 12 weeks of chores so they did not complete Family Life...so let's make an exception.  They were really busy and never were able to get to a city council meeting so they never got Cit in the Community back in the day, so let's make an exception.  Etc Etc Etc

44 minutes ago, Stosh said:

And this is the classic example of why this whole thing isn't working.  This girl doesn't want to be a Scout, she wants to be an Eagle, and the parent's agenda is solely focused on THEIR child getting something and have no interest in what's best for anyone else.  Game on! (and there's no such thing as a win-win in any game.)

This girl doesn't want to be a Scout, she wants to be an Eagle

YEP

 

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Our CE on the 'Family Scouting' announcement:

Q. Will girls have to meet the same requirement to achieve Eagle Scout?

Yes. Our goal is for young women to aspire to and achieve the Eagle Scout rank by meeting the same criteria and achievements as young men.

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My understanding, Ms. Ireland wants admission into Boy Scouts now so she can meet all the same Eagle requirements by her 18th birthday. Time is not on her side.

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1 hour ago, Jameson76 said:

If they bend the rules for her, then why not change the whole 18 years old and out (seems arbitrary...right?)....

In other words restore recognition of adults who serve as an ASM or SM and master skills? Bring back the good-old-days when rank was less about identity and more about achievement and membership trajectory was upward? Why do that?

Edited by qwazse

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I admire the young woman, but I am concerned about her drama ...

Quote

"I am so proud that the Boy Scouts have made the historic change to open up the Boy Scout program to all children," Sydney said. "I am asking that the Scout President Randall Stephenson and Chief Scout Executive Michael Surbaugh allow girls to join troops immediately, so that we girls can attend the 2019 International Jamboree. ...."

Girls, in green shirts can attend WSJ! There are loopholes for those "venturers in training" who won't be able to officially register until they meet existing age requirements just prior to the start of Jambo.

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1 hour ago, Tampa Turtle said:

Awarding this girl an Eagle is also not fair to the families who wanted girls to become Eagles but were waiting for the doors to finally open.

A potential lesson for either Ireland, or if she does get special treatment, anyone else that is excluded.

Life isn't fair.

 

While I would like to see her given the chance to get Eagle, I think both her and the family would show an incredible amount of maturity if they simply said that Ireland helping other girls obtain the chance to get such is "Eagle enough."

 

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52 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

A potential lesson for either Ireland, or if she does get special treatment, anyone else that is excluded.

Life isn't fair.

While I would like to see her given the chance to get Eagle, I think both her and the family would show an incredible amount of maturity if they simply said that Ireland helping other girls obtain the chance to get such is "Eagle enough."

I agree with Hawkwin.  I sympathize with Ms. Ireland, and since girls will be able to earn Eagle in the near future, I wish she could have the chance as well.  But in all fairness, she can't.  They don't even have the 11-17 girls' program set up yet, and I can see why it will take the 18 months or so it is going to take to set it up.  As we discussed with the new rules on Eagle palms, there is always going to be the "last person" who either had to follow the old rules or isn't eligible at all.  Unfortunately, Ms. Ireland is that "last person," or one of them.  I think BSA needs to hold the line on this one.

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51 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

I agree with Hawkwin.  I sympathize with Ms. Ireland, and since girls will be able to earn Eagle in the near future, I wish she could have the chance as well.  But in all fairness, she can't.  They don't even have the 11-17 girls' program set up yet, and I can see why it will take the 18 months or so it is going to take to set it up.  As we discussed with the new rules on Eagle palms, there is always going to be the "last person" who either had to follow the old rules or isn't eligible at all.  Unfortunately, Ms. Ireland is that "last person," or one of them.  I think BSA needs to hold the line on this one.

There are often rule changes, apparently more now than ever...but I digress

Big requirement changes that took affect 1/1/1974.  Switched from 21 to 24 merit badges, they implemented the god awful belt loop skill awards, changed some merit badges that were required to not required and vice versa.  Hard deadline for getting ranks and specifically Eagle under the "old" requirements was 12/31/1973.  No exceptions, that was the deal.  Either you hustled up (and many did note the major bump in Eagle awards in 73 and 74) or you achieved under the then new requirements.

If National bends to this one special request (oh I do hope there is an on-line petition or maybe a twitter # tag) then what happens when there are others.  Specifically what happens to a girl who may be 16 in 2019, but alas, no girl troops in her area, so she was not able to get registered in time, do we allow extended dates or compress the service requirements?

 

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I suppose one could argue that a change in eligibility for an entire group of people is different from changes in rules or requirements, but in my opinion it is not different enough. 

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The BSA and Surbaugh opened the door to this as soon as they opened the door to girls joining Boy Scouts...it's like that one loose thread on a piece cloth, just waiting to be pulled on...inevitably the whole cloth will unravel

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