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New article online - Too much Safety limits program

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OK lets say 100 nights.  In the troop I work with it would take a youth 4 years to meet this requirement.  As a unit wee normally have 10 weekend campouts a year and one long term camp. (Summer Camp) which is 26 nights a year.  So for a youth to meet this requirement he would have to have the long term camp all 4 years and could only miss 2 weekend camping trips over a 4 year period to meet this requirement. 

 

Yes it is doable but I feel like it would be over kill for a youth that has met all the other Eagle requirements.  .

What's wrong with taking 4 years for Eagle?  I know very few who took less time than 4 years to get Eagle.  As NJCubScouter says, 75 would be reasonable as well.  I certainly don't think that 20 camping nights is enough for Eagle.  

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What's wrong with taking 4 years for Eagle?  I know very few who took less time than 4 years to get Eagle.  As NJCubScouter says, 75 would be reasonable as well.  I certainly don't think that 20 camping nights is enough for Eagle.  

Just my opinion, but I do not know of any Eagle Scout that could meet all the qualifications  for Eagle Scout with only 20 nights camping.  Nothing wrong with taking 4 years but as adult leaders we cannot add more requirements for each rank than required by National.  

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Just my opinion, but I do not know of any Eagle Scout that could meet all the qualifications  for Eagle Scout with only 20 nights camping.  Nothing wrong with taking 4 years but as adult leaders we cannot add more requirements for each rank than required by National.  

Well, we had one that only had 20 nights of camping, with the exception of extra summer camps.  

 

I would never require a boy to do that if it wasn't National's requirements, that was just one of my theoretical musings of what I would do if I were rewriting Eagle requirements for National.   The musings being based on my observation of Scouts.   

Edited by perdidochas

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Good approach to the ongoing issues we face, yet does not suggest giving up.  Does stress that we on the ground level have the opportunity to make it better.  Also totally agree with his notes on the OA.

 

 

http://thefederalist.com/2017/10/20/whats-wrong-boy-scouts-goes-deeper-social-issues-cowardice/#.Weo1OC152nI.facebook

 

Not sure how too much safety is even involved.  Aside from quite a few inaccurate statements, the article advocates a "..well we have a leader who made it up and called it scouting once apon a time and we should be able to do it.." theme.    

 

Some things are just not needed to develop character, citizenship, etc.

 

Pick up a Scout Handbook, do what is in there with youth and you should be good.  

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Yes it is doable but I do not feel like adding 100 nights of camping as an additional requirement for the Eagle Scout rank is in the best interest of the program. ..

My magic number would be 50 for camping MB. But, I would strip all of the "Boy Scout Camping" or "With your Troop or Patrol" or "Long term camp" stipulations. There is nothing magic about camping under the auspices of Scouting. And, I believe there is something special when a boy helps his family, youth group, our other party enjoy the outdoors. BSA is missing the boat by giving a boy the impression that he's not really scouting in those circumstances.

Edited by qwazse
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Nothing wrong with taking 4 years but as adult leaders we cannot add more requirements for each rank than required by National.  

 

I don't think anyone here is saying it's ok to add requirements on our own.  But we can talk about changes in the requirements that we'd like to see, or at least be considered.

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My magic number would be 50 for camping MB. But, I would strip all of the "Boy Scout Camping" or "With your Troop or Patrol" or "Long term camp" stipulations. There is nothing magic about camping under the auspices of Scouting. And, I believe there is something special when a boy helps his family, youth group, our other party enjoy the outdoors. BSA is missing the boat by giving a boy the impression that he's not really scouting in those circumstances.

I like the above, however, it should be specified that camping is either a night in a tent you helped put up (with the exception of summer camp), or under the stars.  I do agree that camping under the auspices of different groups should count, and 50 nights (30 nights in addition to Camping Merit badge) would probably be adequate. It would definitely be better than the current system.  I believe that a Scout learns more about being a Scout in a weekend than in 6 months of meetings.  

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Pick up a Scout Handbook, do what is in there with youth and you should be good.

 

Should be, but the new handbooks are woefully limited. A Scout Handbook from the 1950s would actually provide some substance for a scout. Like REAL examples, not just abstract ideas. Even better,I would suggest a First Edition Fieldbook and use that.

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Not sure how too much safety is even involved.  Aside from quite a few inaccurate statements, the article advocates a "..well we have a leader who made it up and called it scouting once apon a time and we should be able to do it.." theme.    

 

Some things are just not needed to develop character, citizenship, etc.

 

Pick up a Scout Handbook, do what is in there with youth and you should be good.  

 

The Aims/Mission is character, citizenship an fitness are the destination. The Methods and the program are the vehicles to get there. Most Scouters probably join because they believe in that mission. Most parents probably want their children in Scouting because of that mission. But that is not why Scout want to join or stay in Scouting.

 

While there are many factors that contribute to the downward trajectory of BSA membership over that last few decades, I would argue program is the number one way to reverse that trajectory. And program may be the number one reason for that trajectory to begin with.

 

Each year our Scouts bring a list of activities to the PLC and annual planning, because those items are what they youth WANT in their program. Each year there are some request we must alter considerably or out right reject due to the Guide to Safe Scouting. And I am not talking crazy request, these are activities they already do with their families, church groups and other organizations. It is disheartening to Scouts and Scouters alike.

 

I look at my job as a Scouter as helping Scouts engage in experiences that change their life, get them excited about learning and trying new things, to help them appreciate and love the outdoors and all of the adventures it holds. Along that journey I am going to help them develop character, citizenship and fitness. I know that doing my job of fulfilling the mission of Scouting requires that I do the job getting the Scouts to have fun and embrace the program. The two things are inseparable.

 

I absolutely embrace the need for safety and risk management, however, as Scouters, with boots on the ground dealing with Scout everyday, we have to bring the Scout handbook to life for them or it is nothing more than casual reading and a checklist. As ardent supporter of professionals, and often a defender, I do find it troubling when Scouters are told just follow the book, when we are simply looking for ways to build a better program.

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"Each year our Scouts bring a list of activities to the PLC and annual planning, because those items are what they youth WANT in their program. Each year there are some request we must alter considerably or out right reject due to the Guide to Safe Scouting. And I am not talking crazy request, these are activities they already do with their families, church groups and other organizations. It is disheartening to Scouts and Scouters alike."

 

To help my aged mind understand, might you give examples of proposed activities barred by  the G2SS?  

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"Each year our Scouts bring a list of activities to the PLC and annual planning, because those items are what they youth WANT in their program. Each year there are some request we must alter considerably or out right reject due to the Guide to Safe Scouting. And I am not talking crazy request, these are activities they already do with their families, church groups and other organizations. It is disheartening to Scouts and Scouters alike."

 

To help my aged mind understand, might you give examples of proposed activities barred by  the G2SS?  

Simple service projects. You need to break down who can use a post hole digger or a step stool. It gets ridiculous having to tell a 6ft 13 year old who lives on a farm he can’t climb higher than a step stool or use post hole digger.

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/healthsafety/pdf/680-028.pdf

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"Each year our Scouts bring a list of activities to the PLC and annual planning, because those items are what they youth WANT in their program. Each year there are some request we must alter considerably or out right reject due to the Guide to Safe Scouting. And I am not talking crazy request, these are activities they already do with their families, church groups and other organizations. It is disheartening to Scouts and Scouters alike."

 

To help my aged mind understand, might you give examples of proposed activities barred by  the G2SS?  

 

Sure:

Paintball

Laser Tag

Water guns

Water Tubing

Four wheeling

Personal Water Craft

Towed Para Sailing

Hot Air Balloon rides

Dodgeball ( i still argue this it's different that using paint/laser guns)

Introductory Karate Class with qualified instructors

Certain pioneering projects

 

Those are some of the items I can remember that have been suggested by our Scouts that they have done on other youth organizations, but did not meet G2SC requirements. Mind you I do not disagree that some of them should be excluded but some of the others I think are a bit over zealous.

Edited by HelpfulTracks

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