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John-in-KC

OFFICIAL NEWS RELEASE: Girls as Youth Members, All Programs

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7 hours ago, TAHAWK said:

Hawkwin:

 

"You didn't read far enough.

 

'ARTICLE VII. YOUTH MEMBERSHIP

 

Section 1. Those eligible to participate in programs designed for youth and young adults shall collectively be known as “youth program participants.†Youth membership in the Boy Scouts of America is open to all who meet the membership requirements. Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting, and Varsity Scouting are for boys. Venturing is for young men and young women. Those youth program participants who are at least 18 years of age and eligible to participate in programs designed for youth shall be referred to as “adult program participants.â€

 

Section 2. Both membership in Scouting and advancement and achievement of leadership in Scouting units are open to all boys and, where authorized, young women, without regard to race or ethnic background, and advancement and achievement of leadership in Scouting is based entirely upon individual merit.'"

 

Hawkwin, even assuming your interpretation of the words that you cite, which I absolutely reject, you seem to wish to set aside these words of the Bylaws that precede, both in position and in effect, the words that you quote:

 

"General Clause

1. These Bylaws shall be consistent with the Charter. The Rules and Regulations shall be consistent with the Charter and the Bylaws. In the event of any conflicts or inconsistencies, the Charter shall govern primarily and the Bylaws secondarily."

[emphasis added]

 

And the Charter, an Act of Congress, that governs over every word you quoted, says:

 

"That the purpose of this corporation shall be to promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies, the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in Scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues, using the methods which are now in common use by Boy Scouts."[emphasis added]

 

BSA (2016)

""The Boy Scouts of America told CBS2 via email that allowing girls to join the organization would go against the group's original charter, created in 1916.

 

'The Boy Scouts of America was chartered by Congress in 1916 to serve boys and young men across the nation through the Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts programs,' the organization said in a statement.

 

The organization says to change the standard Boy Scout program would 'go outside the bounds' of their charter." [emphasis added]

 

 

 

There is an assumption being made that the Charter being referred to in the Bylaws refer to the Federal (Congressional) Charter.   I'm going to toss in this monkey-wrench - do with it what you will.  The BSA also has Articles of Incorporation on file with the State of Texas.  Articles of Incorporation are often referred to as a Corporate Charter.  Most Bylaws will typically be subordinate to an organizations corporate charter or articles of incorporation so the BSA Bylaws could be referring to the corporate charter and not the federal charter.

 

I know about the statement the BSA said about it being a violation of their charter.  Considering the low level of trust folks have of National, would you consider it far fetched that they might refer to the federal charter on one hand and then refer to the Texas charter on the other hand?  Would it be unbelievable that they could have changed the language of their state charter after the last statement about girls being a violation of the charter?  Its not that difficult to file amended Articles of Incorporation.

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, CalicoPenn said:

 

There is an assumption being made that the Charter being referred to in the Bylaws refer to the Federal (Congressional) Charter.   I'm going to toss in this monkey-wrench - do with it what you will.  The BSA also has Articles of Incorporation on file with the State of Texas.  Articles of Incorporation are often referred to as a Corporate Charter.  Most Bylaws will typically be subordinate to an organizations corporate charter or articles of incorporation so the BSA Bylaws could be referring to the corporate charter and not the federal charter.

 

I know about the statement the BSA said about it being a violation of their charter.  Considering the low level of trust folks have of National, would you consider it far fetched that they might refer to the federal charter on one hand and then refer to the Texas charter on the other hand?  Would it be unbelievable that they could have changed the language of their state charter after the last statement about girls being a violation of the charter?  Its not that difficult to file amended Articles of Incorporation.

 

 

 

CP, no wrench, money or otherwise.  The "Charter" referenced in the ByLaws  is quoted by BSA in the Chatter and Bylaws, and it's the now-codified Congressional Act generally called the "Charter.," which begins  "CHARTER Sixty-Fourth Congress of the United States of America At the First Session Begun and Held at the City of Washington On Monday, the Sixth Day of December One Thousand Nine Hundred and Fifteen AN ACT To Incorporate the Boy Scouts of America and for Other Purposes"  Here: https://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/bsa_charter_and_bylaws.pdf

 

You would think BSA's leadership would have thought of this issue given that they cited the Charter only last year as an insurmountable legal barrier to admitting girls to Scout and Cub units, but we must consider the source.  After all, "they" say atheists are not allowed but have allowed Buddhist troops for over ninety years.  Or maybe they thought no one would either notice or recall events of a year ago.  But some, unlike me, are focused on this as "the" issue, and the odds of escaping a reckoning seem slim and none. 

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And see, I was wrong again, we have apparently had coed Sea Scouting since 1972.  So not twenty years of female youth members but forty -five years.

 

Apparently, some units at least can be all female. (Local option?) The 2016 national Flagship was all-female Ship 100 from California.

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The whole charter argument came up before with the boys club. The Boys Club allowed girls to join since the 1800s but only updated their charter in 1990 when they asked congress to officially update their name and extend the club to girls.    

 

Interesting that there was already a Girls Club and they sued to stop the Boys club name change in 1988. After the injunction they Boys Club paid the Girls Club to change their name to Girls Inc

 

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/10/25/garden/when-boys-clubs-meet-girls-clubs.html

 

I wonder if in 5 years we will update our name to The Boy and Girl Scouts of America and pay off the Girl Scouts to rename themselves Girl Guides... history would repeat....

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I split the separate patrol vs troop discussion here. Please try to stay on topic.

 

 

Edited by RememberSchiff

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I notice there is still no date on any BSA publication except 'Fall 2018"  But the National Catholic Committee on Scouting gives a date of January 1, 2018.

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I hope there is a plan and training before there is a "date", but who knows. :confused:

Shenandoah Area Council is having a Leadership Summit in February . "Topics will include the function and roles of the Council/District committees in support of our Chartered Partners and the expansion of girls of all ages into the BSA."

http://www.sac-bsa.org/openrosters/ViewOrgPageLink.aspx?orgkey=2571&itemkey=14403

 

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7 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I notice there is still no date on any BSA publication except 'Fall 2018"  But the National Catholic Committee on Scouting gives a date of January 1, 2018.

In the last district committee meeting I attended I asked if girls could attend the Cub Scout camps the summer of 2018. The individual responsible for the camp stated she asked and it was made clear that girls in Cub Scouts would start in September of 2018.  The only official documents I have seen is fall of 2018 so September seems reasonable as the start. 

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The Cub Scout Summer Camp my kids work at will be having a session that girls will be able to attend this summer. It was announced last summer at their staff week when the rumors were flying that girls would soon be allowed into Cubs and Scouts. The session is titled 'Cubs and Sisters' or something similar. It was scheduled in part due to the expected announcement but also in response to the requests to bring sisters to camp. It turns out that many Cubs aren't able to attend summer camp because the parent that would bring them also has a female sibling at home to tend to. So by allowing sisters to come to camp, its a win for all involved. More Cubs in camp, extra sisters in camp and more adults at camp. A great way to max out the session. Also a great way to hook the girls on Scouting. Maybe new BSA members come fall.

Camp will only be open to Cub age sisters is my understanding. No really little folks at camp. Nor any teens in Cub camp. My daughter is looking forward to having girls in camp. It'll be a treat to have other young ladies in camp than her and her tentmate. The program is supposed to be the same as any other session of Cub camp, but nothing has been finalized that I know of. 

 

Different note - spring recruiting around here for Cubs is in May/June. Thought is get them signed up before school starts, get them involved over the summer and get them hooked. I foresee a lot of girls joining in the spring at round ups. Our district even runs a Bobcat Boot Camp twice a year. One of them is June, just before Day Camp and just after school lets out. It'll be interesting to see if this happens.

 

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11 minutes ago, bsaggcmom said:

The Cub Scout Summer Camp my kids work at will be having a session that girls will be able to attend this summer. It was announced last summer at their staff week when the rumors were flying that girls would soon be allowed into Cubs and Scouts. The session is titled 'Cubs and Sisters' or something similar. It was scheduled in part due to the expected announcement but also in response to the requests to bring sisters to camp. It turns out that many Cubs aren't able to attend summer camp because the parent that would bring them also has a female sibling at home to tend to. So by allowing sisters to come to camp, its a win for all involved. More Cubs in camp, extra sisters in camp and more adults at camp. A great way to max out the session. Also a great way to hook the girls on Scouting. Maybe new BSA members come fall.

Camp will only be open to Cub age sisters is my understanding. No really little folks at camp. Nor any teens in Cub camp. My daughter is looking forward to having girls in camp. It'll be a treat to have other young ladies in camp than her and her tentmate. The program is supposed to be the same as any other session of Cub camp, but nothing has been finalized that I know of. 

 

Different note - spring recruiting around here for Cubs is in May/June. Thought is get them signed up before school starts, get them involved over the summer and get them hooked. I foresee a lot of girls joining in the spring at round ups. Our district even runs a Bobcat Boot Camp twice a year. One of them is June, just before Day Camp and just after school lets out. It'll be interesting to see if this happens.

 

Any idea who made this decision or at what level it was made?  

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Not really sure how the decision was made.  I have a hunch it was by the camp director/camp ranger in response to requests to bring sisters to Cub camps in the past years.  Having volunteered quite a bit there over the last few summers, I know that parents having to balance a daughter's need for care and taking a son to Cub camp for 3 days can be difficult. I lived the problem for 5 years myself. I think the session for sisters to come was to help with accessibility. The session isn't listed in the regular Cub camp flier. It may be listed as a council family opportunity. I haven't gone surfing to find it. But it was confirmed when we worked a Halloween event about a month ago.

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20 hours ago, bsaggcmom said:

Different note - spring recruiting around here for Cubs is in May/June. 

I heard that was at least one of the recommendations sent up to national. Respectively, female units in place by early 2019, maybe even late 2018, to be prepared for AOL Crossover.

Not sure of the outcome yet.

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