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John-in-KC

OFFICIAL NEWS RELEASE: Girls as Youth Members, All Programs

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From the Congressional Charter, 

 

The purposes of the corporation [bSA] are to promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies, the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues, using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916.

 

Don't read anything about "youth"

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With respect, my reply was to Flagg. There is nothing you should infer about your original comment and my response to Flagg. They are two different comments and should not be conflated to be the same thing.

 

Flagg was stating that Boy scouts should not change because 100 years of tradition - that it has always been boys only. I replied to him to illustrate that, "we have always done it this way" is not necessarily a valid reason to keep a policy - that BSA used to exclude people of color, then BSA changed.

 

 

 

I don't see how you can talk about one form of segregation and not see correlations to others. It isn't a straw man to bring up the fact that BSA used to be segregated by color and no longer is.

 

But, I digress. I think we have beat this particular horse enough.

I believe Flagg said 100 years of Boy Scouts for boys. YOU brought up segregation. That’s a straw man.

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I don't see how you can talk about one form of segregation and not see correlations to others. It isn't a straw man to bring up the fact that BSA used to be segregated by color and no longer is.

 

 

What is the next form of "segregation" in which you will see correlations to bigotry? Religion? Is religion the next thing on your agenda?

 

Edited by David CO
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Times change, needs change, mission changes.

 

Remember when Boys Town was an orphanage for boys only?  Their mission today is quite different from the days of Father Flanagan. Though the name was briefly changed to Boys and Girls Town, the name is again Boys Town. The logo has changed, the big brother is carrying his sister on his back.

 

Are we not meeting the requirements of our Congressional Charter or are we exceeding it? Does a Congressional Charter matter, if so, how?

 

As I recall, years ago, a forum member thought the BSA should become a "scout-owned" corporation. Each member had a share and vote. His thought was the powers that be would agree to the change because of the money raised. I think he left scouting.

 

My $0.02

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What is the next form of "segregation" in which you will see correlations to bigotry? Religion? Is religion the next thing on your agenda?

 

 

Why do you assume I have an agenda?

 

Soo much hostility here.

 

Earlier in this thread I made a comment that if we left all decisions up to the scouts, that one of the first things that would go would likely be the last G - God. If you read that comment, then you should probably infer that I am not in favor of such a change.

 

Perhaps give me the benefit of the doubt? I'd do the same for you.

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From the Congressional Charter, 

 

The purposes of the corporation [bSA] are to promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies, the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues, using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916.

 

Don't read anything about "youth"

 

Yes, and that is valid. But that isn't the mission statement of BSA today.

 

Just like our original Constitution was written centuries ago but has also changed a few dozen times over the years.

 

The mission statement today is about youth, not boys.

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Looking at the 2016 annual report it seems clear the BSA is in some financial trouble. The Summit continues to suck cash, our net insurance is costing $70m a year (vs $40m in 2015), we lost $28m in net cash from operations (vs $6m loss in 2015) and then read Note 9.... the lawsuits being filed could cause “ ...operational impact on our program.†Just 1 lawsuit filed in Oregon is suing BSA for $21m.

 

It appears we are selling assets and continuing to bond with the hope that Summit will take off and the we won’t lose these upcoming massive lawsuits. Our assets (think selling camps) will keep us afloat for a while until we sell too many and kill the program.

 

The discussion around girls joining has been around for decades. While I think it can be done with a positive impact and will do my best to recruit those interested while maintaining our Pack, I think the BSA chose to include them to boost membership and save the overall program. I highly doubt this was done altruistically. Either way, what’s done is done and I hope that we find some new energetic volunteers and scouts with this change. I’d like to see us adding camps, facilities and programs while being at a loss of how to handle all of these extra volunteers. Perhaps this change will lead us there. Hope springs eternal...

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We are truly in trouble if question marks are interpreted as hostility.

If the stewards of the program cannot weather some questions without such accusations, then there really isn't much fortitude on display or in practice.

Isn't there another thread regarding modeling behavior? Or is that too brusque?

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We are truly in trouble if question marks are interpreted as hostility.

 

 

In my case, they are absolutely right. I am hostile towards the people who are ruining BSA. I am very hostile, and I will freely admit it. 

 

I will agree to tone down my language, in an effort to have a more civil discourse, but that will not alter my hostility. If some people on the forum can still sense my hostility through my use of punctuation marks, I can only applaud them for their insight. 

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From the Congressional Charter, 

 

The purposes of the corporation [bSA] are to promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies, the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues, using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916.

 

Don't read anything about "youth"

Didn't the BSA argue that the congressional charter was meaningless during the Dale case? Or one of the related cases at the time? I remember something about since the charter implied that the BSA was a public accommodation, the BSA argued that the charter was a meaningless historical artifact or something like that.

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Didn't the BSA argue that the congressional charter was meaningless during the Dale case? Or one of the related cases at the time? I remember something about since the charter implied that the BSA was a public accommodation, the BSA argued that the charter was a meaningless historical artifact or something like that.

 

I don't remember that.  Which doesn't mean it didn't happen, it just means I don't remember it.  I just did a couple of Google searches and they didn't turn up anything.  And I searched the Dale decision for the word "charter" and there was nothing in the context that you are talking about. Can you recall any more details?

Edited by NJCubScouter

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This process of nullifying documents one doesn't agree with has become our national pastime.  The Bible, the Constitution, BSA Charter, etc. have all become dead, "living" documents of meaningless words that have no place in our enlightened world of shared ignorance. Once these societal contracts are removed, there is no longer any society.

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I believe the Boys club had their charter modified by congress when they added girls.

 

“To recognize the fact that girls are a part of our cause, the national organization's name was changed to Boys & Girls Clubs of America in 1990. Accordingly, Congress amended and renewed our charter.â€

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