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John-in-KC

OFFICIAL NEWS RELEASE: Girls as Youth Members, All Programs

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Agreed, and for those who point out you can still keep an all-boy Pack or Troop, please tell me how long you think that will last and how much volunteer input will influence the next round of changes.

 

It is indeed no longer BOY Scouts.  No girl wants to be a BOY scout.  Scouting USA, back after 40 years!

 

We'll probably be able to keep all-boy packs and troops for another 50 or so years until a newer generation decides that separating the genders is just stupid.

 

No girl wants to be a BOY Scout?  Never use an absolute - there are people in this thread telling you how excited their girls are to get the chance to be a Boy Scout.

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We'll probably be able to keep all-boy packs and troops for another 50 or so years until a newer generation decides that separating the genders is just stupid.

 

No girl wants to be a BOY Scout?  Never use an absolute - there are people in this thread telling you how excited their girls are to get the chance to be a Boy Scout.

 

The problem today is there are not enough absolutes adhered to.

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We'll probably be able to keep all-boy packs and troops for another 50 or so years until a newer generation decides that separating the genders is just stupid.

 

No girl wants to be a BOY Scout?  Never use an absolute - there are people in this thread telling you how excited their girls are to get the chance to be a Boy Scout.

We have 2 sisters now that would jump in the troop, they have spent the past 5 years wanting to be cubs and now in a troop. They have been waiting to hit 14 to join Venturing. They are Girl Scouts and they are not happy with it because it is all cookie sales with a little arts & crafts sprinkled in.

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Scouting will change. Boys and girls at summer camp together will change how boys act. No way I want to look like an idiot in front of a girl so the notion of learning through failure won’t happen. Who wants to fail in front of girls? I have three sisters and the last thing we want to do is spend more time together. I want to hang with my friends. I don’t want my sisters along on camp outs.

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My point about the name BOY Scout is that as of yesterday, it died.  The BSA spokesperson stated "There are no plans to change our name at this time."  

 

Really?  They probably have to sell tons of BSA branded merchandise and books first, then print new edition handbooks with 50/50 girls and boys in the pictures.

 

Again, what girl wants to tell her friends she's a BOY Scout??  

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Scouting will change. Boys and girls at summer camp together will change how boys act. No way I want to look like an idiot in front of a girl so the notion of learning through failure won’t happen. Who wants to fail in front of girls? 

 

Boys acting differently around girls has been my main reservation about all this.  I have seen it happen.  On the other hand, the photos, videos and descriptions that Cambridgeskip and others have posted over the years suggest to me that in the UK the kids seem to do what they need to do regardless of gender.  I know that attitudes are different between the US and UK, but boys are still boys and girls are still girls, on either side of the ocean.  What is going to happen here, people can predict all they want, but nobody really knows.

Edited by NJCubScouter

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At the last (elementary) school in which my wife taught, a teacher started a club called "Girls Run the Nation".  There was (and probably still is) a huge banner in the lobby proclaiming Girls Run the Nation, they have special activities and events just for girls in the school and there has been a push to replicate the club in other schools as well. As 50% of the school's population (boys) walk under that banner every morning, I can't help but think what message they are taking away.  Add to that the fact that the overwhelming majority of the teachers are young females that have no clue how to handle active young boys (besides pushing for a diagnosis) and I am afraid that boys have become the second class citizen of the public education system. Unfortunately, the push for "empowerment" for girls has translated into boys (in general) falling behind as less positive attention is given them.  Boy scouts has been a 'safe space' for boys to go to, where they can be themselves and develop strong character based on positive male role models.  Over the past twenty years, it really had become one of the last places to which a boy could escape the growing feminization of our culture.

 

This is exactly the issue I have with adding girls.  I have two boys, 6th and 11th grade, who have been scouts since first grade.  My youngest, for two years in elementary school, was subjected to teaching assistants / teachers who had them line up girls in one line, boys in another.  And then they said "Ladies First" and the girls ALWAYS went first -- which means they were first to activities and first back to prepare at their desks.  After this went one for awhile, he was very upset.  As he said "I thought you said we were EQUAL!" Which is what we have always taught the boys.  (Of course we teach them how to treat their friends, male and female, and good behavior for future dating / marriage, etc.) But school is their work and every is and should be equal. 

 

He notices that boys are excluded from Girls on the Run, and realizes that as a boy he cannot run until 6th grade (cross country) and then he has to try out.  Also, girls are allowed to play football and baseball, but boys are NOT allowed to play softball or volleyball.  Not that he wants to -- but boys are not allowed anyway.  He even had girls tell him that "girls were oppressed and boys have so many more opportunities."  Yes, 9 and 10 year old girls.  I think this girl empowerment movement has gone overboard to the point where boys are sometimes discriminated against and that isn't right either.

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Again, what girl wants to tell her friends she's a BOY Scout??  

 

Quite a few I would imagine.

 

I was in a co-ed fraternity in college that was 70% female. We referred to each other as "Brother [last name]."

 

My Girl Scout daughter has NO problem with it being called boy scouts. That is a problem parents and society would try teach her. She isn't born with such an objection and doesn't have it now.

 

Girls of cub scout age won't care and obviously any girl that wants to join "boy" scouts has already accept the title of the organization.

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Boys acting differently around girls has been my main reservation about all this. I have seen it happen. On the other hand, the photos, videos and descriptions that Cambridgeskip and others have posted over the year suggest to me that in the UK the kids seem to do what they need to do regardless of gender. I know that attitudes are different between the US and UK, but boys are still boys and girls are still girls, on either side of the ocean. What is going to happen here, people can predict all they want, but nobody really knows.

I’m in Venturing and was in Boy Scouts so my experience is pretty recent. Guys definitely do act differently around girls. We’d skip merit badge classes just to hang by the water front to impress the female life guard. We’d hang out all day at the trading post just to spend our money for a chance to talk to the cashier. One of my Philmont buddies faked injury just a to hang at base camp and talk to the girl in the snack bar. I’m not sure how old you are but it sounds like you’re not 17 anymore. I can tell you first hand that guys act 100% different around girls. If girls are at camp with boys it will change lots.

Edited by Back Pack
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Quite a few I would imagine.

 

I was in a co-ed fraternity in college that was 70% female. We referred to each other as "Brother [last name]."

 

My Girl Scout daughter has NO problem with it being called boy scouts. That is a problem parents and society would try teach her. She isn't born with such an objection and doesn't have it now.

 

Girls of cub scout age won't care and obviously any girl that wants to join "boy" scouts has already accept the title of the organization.

Parents and society SHOULD teach the difference between boys and girls.  It's pathetic that parents hasten to emasculate their sons like this.

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Boys acting differently around girls has been my main reservation about all this.  I have seen it happen.  On the other hand, the photos, videos and descriptions that Cambridgeskip and others have posted over the year suggest to me that in the UK the kids seem to do what they need to do regardless of gender.  I know that attitudes are different between the US and UK, but boys are still boys and girls are still girls, on either side of the ocean.  What is going to happen here, people can predict all they want, but nobody really knows.

Thanks captain obvious.

 

Here is what I know, it will work out because the adults will force it to work. Will it be the scouting that I grew up knowing and the scouting my sons experienced? I don't thinks so. How could it, the adults will force it to work.

 

Barry

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Going by the majority of the responses in the boyscouts and bsachief Twitter feeds, the BOD really didn't exactly have the pulse of the general public on this.

 

As a numbersnerd, you should know that people who want to complain about changes on social media will always outnumber people who like the changes or the people who just don't care either way commenting in social media- by significantly large numbers - so I take any twitter or other social media comments with a very large grain of salt. 

 

 

Please see my other post regarding this and the use of Twitter activity to gauge message reception. All your points are addressed.

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Again, no one is forcing your unit to accept girls. In fact, it is entirely possible that not a single existing unit would change. This change, much to your point, simply allows girls to experience a group that, "teaches both boys and girls the same thing as Boy Scouts."

 

No one is forcing it upon a group that doesn't want it. It is still BOY Scouts if your CO wants it to be.

 

This is an OPTIONAL change. Not mandatory.

 

While your statement is true, there will also be changes to the program outside of individual unit membership. Ignore that at your peril. Fundamental changes to an effective program rarely result in any degree of success. THAT is what I believe many are afraid of. And rightly so.

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My point about the name BOY Scout is that as of yesterday, it died.  The BSA spokesperson stated "There are no plans to change our name at this time."  

 

Really?  They probably have to sell tons of BSA branded merchandise and books first, then print new edition handbooks with 50/50 girls and boys in the pictures.

 

Again, what girl wants to tell her friends she's a BOY Scout??  

Is that like YMCA?  I am Jewish and a paying member for the YMCA....  YMCA is no longer only Christian or men only and a lot of other exclusionary policies it had back in the day.  In fact, I would wager to say that the membership is more women than men now.   YMCA is the historical name.  Boy Scouts and BSA are the brand, so I expect the name to stay for a long time, at some point it may become just BSA.

 

And I talk a lot with Venture scouts, they are all very proud to tell their friends they are Boy Scouts.  In fact, they are more proud to say it than the boys at that age.

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First - there were internal surveys done.  If they were overwhelmingly against, this decision might have been different - if they were anywhere in the 50/50 to 60/40 range, it probably wouldn't have changed anything.

 

The BSA is a business - it may be non-profit - but it is a business.  National's interest is NOT the same as individual unit's interests - it hasn't been for decades.  Its biggest motivator is membership - that's why you see so many statistics about membership numbers.  Without members, the organization will sputter out and eventually die.  Any organization that does not change eventually suffers from entropy and withers away.  I've been repeating this every since I've been here - like all businesses, the BSA has to adapt in order to remain relevant - not to its current customers but to attract new customers.  What is happening here is very much like what happens with commercial businesses all the time.  Think of it like this - you have a favorite restaurant and you have a favorite menu item.  The restaurant never changes its menu and over time, fewer and fewer people go to the restaurant - so the restaurant changes a bunch of menu items - keeping some of the old menu items but eliminating a bunch of others.  Let's say they eliminate your favorite menu item so you decide to stop going.  You're now thinking that the restaurant is kind of stupid because they're now losing customers except the restaurant, though wishing you would stay, is also betting that for every customer that leaves because of the menu changes, they gain 2 or 3 or more new customers who like the new menu. Ummm, ask Applebee's how that worked for them. Ask Olive Garden how that worked for them. Some of the most successful restaurants (traffic and margin) operate on an unchanging and limited menu model. Tell them they need to change to keep up with the times. They'll laugh in your face.

 

The BSA is betting that they'll gain more members than they lose.  Is that a wise bet?  Only time will tell - but the BSA has to try something - the current configuration isn't sustainable in the long term for the changes that society is going through. But successful businesses also make sure to move in ways that minimizes customer defection. Business 101. Cheaper to retain than acquire. Instead of building on it's core strengths, BSA has decided to actively alienate a sizable portion of the existing customer base by chasing an undetermined population size with existing competition in that space. People get fired for less.

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