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The issue with girls in Scouting

  

77 members have voted

  1. 1. The creation of additional BSA programs that would include girls, regardless if it is parallel or coed?

    • In favor
      30
    • Neutral
      18
    • Opposed
      22
  2. 2. Creating a parallel program for girls mirroring Cub Scouts & Boy Scouts

    • In favor
      25
    • Neutral
      21
    • Oppose
      24
  3. 3. Making Cub Scouts and Boys Scouts coed

    • In favor
      34
    • Neutral
      8
    • Oppose
      28


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I see many opinions floating around about the possible/probable future of Scouting that includes female youth.

 

What is difficult, with so many potential variations, is to tell is what people support or oppose.

 

Based on what I saw in the video, a parallel track for girls in Cub and Boy Scouting is what is being considered. No doubt that some Packs/Troops will go coed regardless of what BSA National policy says, some councils clearly do not enforce National Policy already in myriad of issues.

 

So I have some questions in the form of a poll. Feel free to expound on your answers.

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I'm opposed because the program will need to be changed to incorporate girls in Scouting, and that takes away from the boys. Whatever you think about the various studies on whether single gender or coed education and programs are better for youth or not, the BSA's program is geared for them.

 

A parallel program already exists, GSUSA, and from what I keep hearing it sucks. I think GSUSA needs to change how they do things to attract the girls who want to be in Boy Scouts. 

 

But let's face reality. The decision has already been made. If it was not made already, then why is BSA going on a major "Scouting is for the Family" i.e. Scouting Magazine's article on family camping (which was horribly out of place IMHO), national is promoting,  "Camp with the Fam" with the scout shops,  CS promo materials have sisters in the pics, and the video promo with the single mom family with the sister doing activities with her now Boy Scout brother. Call me a cynic, but the decision has already been made, they just have not announced it yet (January 2 sources have told me).

 

 

And whether BSA wants it or not THERE WILL BE FULLY INTEGRATED CUB SCOUT DENS AND INTEGRATED TROOPS (caps for emphasis)  I've already commented on this topic in other threads, and it came up at roundtable.  There are not enough volunteers to have segregated dens and/or troops.

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I'm opposed because the program will need to be changed to incorporate girls in Scouting, and that takes away from the boys. Whatever you think about the various studies on whether single gender or coed education and programs are better for youth or not, the BSA's program is geared for them.

 

A parallel program already exists, GSUSA, and from what I keep hearing it sucks. I think GSUSA needs to change how they do things to attract the girls who want to be in Boy Scouts. 

 

But let's face reality. The decision has already been made. If it was not made already, then why is BSA going on a major "Scouting is for the Family" i.e. Scouting Magazine's article on family camping (which was horribly out of place IMHO), national is promoting,  "Camp with the Fam" with the scout shops,  CS promo materials have sisters in the pics, and the video promo with the single mom family with the sister doing activities with her now Boy Scout brother. Call me a cynic, but the decision has already been made, they just have not announced it yet (January 2 sources have told me).

 

 

And whether BSA wants it or not THERE WILL BE FULLY INTEGRATED CUB SCOUT DENS AND INTEGRATED TROOPS (caps for emphasis)  I've already commented on this topic in other threads, and it came up at roundtable.  There are not enough volunteers to have segregated dens and/or troops.

 

This pretty much sums it up for me, too.  But, that being said, if co-ed/integrated/whatever is what the parents at my CO want, that's probably what we'll do.  We'll find a way to make it work, and continue to provide a great Scouting experience for the boys (and girls, I suppose).

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Eager to see the results of the poll.

Hopefully this thread doesn't get locked too.

That's up to the mods. Just don't dissent their point of view.

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@@Col. Flagg take a day to reflect about  listening to others and respecting their opinions. No one here is not passionate about  Scouting.

 

It's been a busy day moderating.  More "Courteous" would  be welcome.

Edited by RememberSchiff
grammar
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I'm opposed because the program will need to be changed to incorporate girls in Scouting, and that takes away from the boys. Whatever you think about the various studies on whether single gender or coed education and programs are better for youth or not, the BSA's program is geared for them.

 

A parallel program already exists, GSUSA, and from what I keep hearing it sucks. I think GSUSA needs to change how they do things to attract the girls who want to be in Boy Scouts. 

What changes do you think will need to be made? I hear a lot of this "changing the program" but I never hear anyone say what they think that will be? Like specifics.... (btw I do not want any changes at all to the program, we we are I agreement there)

 

GSUSA does not want to change, and they won't. So many say that they should, but that's a dead end.

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I INTENSELY oppose the first and third suggestions. I am confused by the second one, though. When you say "the creation of a parallel program," isn't that exactly what groups like the Girl Scouts or the Campfire Girls are doing? Why expect the BSA to come up with such a thing when there are plenty of other programs doing just that?  People say "the Girl Scouts won't change," and so they leave them alone. But when the Boy Scouts don't change, NO! We much MAKE them change! Why then afflict the Boy Scouts instead of accepting what our program is, like you seem content to do with the Girl Scouts? It's a double-standard, and it reeks of ulterior agendas. 

 

I grow weary of people who basically want to take advantage of a respected program like the Boy Scouts of America, and change it into what they want just to meet their own agenda, rather than having the courage and work-ethic to create what they want on their own. If they want a program that offers BSA-like opportunities to girls, great. Create something. Don't demand that the BSA alienate thousands, or even millions, of faithful participants just so that they can get what they want without all the work. 

 

They want the BSA's resources, its properties, its opportunities, the respect it has spent 107 years cultivating, the legacy it has worked so hard to build - but at the cost of changing the fundamental character of the organization. And that character is a program built to help mold young boys into fine, honorable, hard-working men who will contribute to our countries citizenry in meaningful ways. The WAY that it does so has been honed over the years to be exactly what boys need. It is NOT what girls need. Girls are different than boys. They develop differently; they experience the world differently; they have their own powerful gifts and sensibilities that deserve to be cultivated with the same attention and nourishment and nurturing that the boys get in the BSA - but the BSA does not cultivate the gifts of girls to the extent they need and deserve. Just because a girl might love the same activities as a Boy Scout does not mean that the Boy Scout program will nurture her growth into a young woman to her fullest potential. To force the program to accept girls would necessary and unavoidably compel it to make fundamental changes in how it is run, how it is organized, and how it operates, and those changes would lessen the influence on the boys while failing to provide enough of the right influence for the girls.

 

I understand if others feel differently, but I have yet to have placed in front of me one single argument that could make sense of such a transformation of the program to me. It is a perilous idea, and I care too much about the youth of today to possibly contemplate it. As an educator, a child development specialist, an uncle, a Scouter, and a friend of who-knows-how-many young people, I cannot condone such a move. 

Edited by The Latin Scot
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I just saw a copy of the newest batch of youth applications.  I quote:

 

Joining Requirements

 

Cub Scout Pack

Pack membership is open to youth in kindergarten through fifth grade...

 

Boy Scout Troop

Children can be Scouts if they have completed ....

 

** It no longer says boys or your son..   I think national already has a plan underway.

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The first  an second "more program" proposals expect too much from already beleaguered programs.

 

The third sounds like fun. I like fun. That's really the only reason I favor it. Well that, and I think our nation needs more youth enthused about living by the scout oath and law, and my instincts tell me that could be better obtained in mixed troops in some communities. Single-sex troops in others. It's a big country.

 

But that is not without conditions ... I'm not willing to loose good scouters in the process. If good scouters go, so will good scouts. Proponents of #3 sometimes make their case by casting aspersions on the few boy scout organizations in WOSM. That makes me question their objectivity. Pakistan's numbers have doubled in two decades. Saudi's have gone from zero to something formidable. Folks who are dismissive of those facts are asking me to ignore scouters who are open about their biases and regard scouters who are blind to them. I find that position untenable.

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I must correct the false information posted here before it explodes into false rumors and spreads beyond this thread. 

 

I just saw a copy of the newest batch of youth applications.  I quote:

 

Joining Requirements

 

Cub Scout Pack

Pack membership is open to youth in kindergarten through fifth grade...

 

Boy Scout Troop

Children can be Scouts if they have completed ....

 

** It no longer says boys or your son..   I think national already has a plan underway.

 
Clearly you did not read the application very carefully. Or you have misquoted it, though why I can only imagine. 

 

My friends, I have in front of me a youth application, picked up a few hours ago from my regional Scout Service Center. It is the latest and most current application to come from the BSA. Under the heading "CUB SCOUT PACK," on the second page inside, it says "Pack membership is open to boys." No further comment. Under "BOY SCOUT TROOP/VARSITY TEAM," it says under the heading Boy Scout Troop "Your son can be a Scout if he has completed ... et cetera, while under Varsity Team is says "Varsity Scouting - A male youth must be at least 14 years of age and not yet 18." Both are explicit. There is no room for misunderstanding or re-interpretation.

 

To differentiate those programs from a program that actually is co-ed, it reads under the heading "VENTURING CREW/SEA SCOUT SHIP (COEDUCATIONAL)" (for emphasis I am sure) "Venturing and Sea Scouting are for young men and women at least 13 years old ..." et cetera.

 

All are very clear. There has been no change to this application. I called my regional offices to confirm as an added measure of certification to my research. They confirmed that there is no "newer application," and that there is no plan to open either Boy Scouting or Cub Scouting to girls at this time.

 

To spread the false rumor that the application is accepting girls is unwise and unwarranted. Why would National secretly try to smuggle such a massive change into the program under our noses? Would they really be so idiotic as to think they could slip in such a bombshell without anybody noticing? Of course not. If they ever did make such a decision it would come with trumpets blaring and fanfares and all kinds of nonsense. They wouldn't bury clues in the applications as though this was some second-rate mystery for the members to find and try to solve.

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