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The Latin Scot

Wearing uniform hats indoors?

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A photo from the Internet of some Scouts and Scouters happily wearing their red berets: http://tinyurl.com/yczoonxq

 

When the red beret (and other optional hats) were made available around 1972, my troop voted for the campaign hat. After just a few years we switched to the baseball cap, although as I recall those of us who had been to Philmont wore our Philmont baseball caps instead of the official one.

 

I remember wearing the garter with the tassel with the long socks in the summer. I don't remember minding it very much. It was just part of the uniform when wearing shorts.

Same here, the garter was just part of the uniform, no big deal. Same with the beret, the Thunderbird patrol wore them and they were pretty cool. I remember the knee socks (no garters) were going out of style around 1995 and only the adults with scouting experience were resisting the change. Kind of funny, the socks got shorter and the shorts got longer. Thank goodness, short shorts complemented very few adult scouters of either gender. :huh:

 

On a side note, back in 1998 our PLC asked if they could go to Olive Drab BDUs for the official scout pant. As I always did, my guidance was read their Scout Handbook and do what they felt was right according to the scout law. They didn't like that answer and asked if they could approach council for approval of the BDUs. Of course, I was actually proud that they were creative in going over my head for "official" approval of the BDUs. But count me as the most surprised when council said YES. Anyway to my point, as we watched the scouts March in this years 4th of July Parade, it was my wife who noted that the official BSA pants today look almost identical to those BDUs.

 

Barry

Edited by Eagledad

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What's the point of a hat if not to show how courteous you are? :sleep:

Words of a true Scoutmaster. I wish I was still teaching Scoutmaster Specific just to barrow this phrase.

 

Barry

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One issue I have with hats is that BSA has put out so many different hats with the logo that people think they are "uniform" hats. 

 

Troop growing up allowed ANY Scouting hat to be worn. We had folks with camp, Philmont, scout show, campaign covers, and even Canadian Scout hats.

 

I got a hold a gray, British Air Scout beret. I wore it for a little bit. But prefer either the expedition or my smokey.

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Taking the discussion back a further step, why is it impolite to wear a hat indoors, particularly while eating?  Food service workers are required to cover their hair to avoid contamination, and a hat many times fits this requirement.  The reason I ask is because I have fairly thick hair, and even after a haircut, I get the most ridiculous looking "hat head" when I take my hat off, that can only be resolved by completely wetting down my hair (i.e. shower).   I think I would be much more visually non-offensive wearing a baseball cap rather than this disheveled coif.  

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I've learned not to let thick hair like mine become an excuse for disregarding courtesy. While I may be embarrassed by what my hair chooses to do with itself whenever I remove my hat, I acknowledge that showing respect at the table matters more than how I look. And if somebody gets offended by my hair (or even by the hat for that matter), that is their choice. I am certainly not going to let the opinions of others dictate to me what I should and shouldn't do. Common decency in our era demands that hats be removed at the table - that is one of the few absolute cases of hats coming off. The others are when entering somebody else's home, and when entering a religious sanctuary, be it a church, temple, chapel, mosque or synagogue. Other than those instances, their wearing can be debated, as this thread demonstrates. But those three - meals, homes, and religious centers - should be beyond dispute.

 

@The Latin Scot, I know you (part) Scottish guys go in for skirts and high socks  :p , but we are talking the late 1970s here. I am pretty certain that elastic was prevalent in garments back then, if the jock straps they required us to wear in PE are any indication.

 

@@Col. Flagg The 1970's?!? Okay, then yes, that is a little odd. But they weren't required uniform items by then, so it must have been a local/unit aberrance you were dealing with, for which you have my sympathy. But you certainly aren't wrong about my Gaelic tastes; I just bought a new pair of high socks for those chilly California January days when it gets all the way down to the low 50's. They actually look pretty snappy with my campaign hat to compliment them. I mean, what else do you want me to do, wear long pants?!? That's just crazy talk. 

Edited by The Latin Scot

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Many times social etiquette varies from one societal custom to the next.  One would never ask a person from India to remove his turban.  Or a Jewish person their yarmulke in a place of worship.  Doing so would result in oneself being the disrespectful person.  While the old adage, When in Rom do as the Romans is nice sentiment, it isn't always good manners to point out out someone's faux pas.

 

50 years ago women wouldn't go into a place of Christian worship without some kind of head covering.  Now it's rare to see a woman wearing a hat/scarf in church.  Times change, customs change and I find it rather rude to enforce often times arcane customs.  It wasn't all that long ago a man would never go out in public without a hat and take it off any time he spoke to a woman.  Such customs have changed.  Not everyone got the memo.

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Common decency in our era demands that hats be removed at the table - that is one of the few absolute cases of hats coming off. 

 

I understand that (although I don't necessarily agree with the absolute part).  My question was more along the lines of whether there is a good reason for this, or is it just a "we've always done it that way" justification.  Wearing a hat doesn't seem inherently offensive.   

Edited by The Blancmange

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My question was more along the lines of whether there is a good reason for this, or is it just a "we've always done it that way" justification.  Wearing a hat doesn't seem inherently offensive.   

 

It has been historically done as a sign of respect.

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So has bowing to another when the meet, shaking hands, saluting, tipping one's hat, waving, pat on the back, and anyone of a hundred other gestures do the same thing.  Why pick on hats?  It's no longer customary that men are to wear hats in public as it once was. 

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So let's get rid of all signs of respect then?

 

Ask this: Why wear them inside? Because you want to show off your "cool" hat? You're afraid of "hat head"? You're bald?

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My grandmother had this warning. Only reason to wear a hat at MY table is you are getting ready to leave, Now are you leaving or do you want dinner?

 

It was automatic for my Grandfather and Dad, years of training I suppose.

 

:)

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My grandmother had this warning. Only reason to wear a hat at MY table is you are getting ready to leave, Now are you leaving or do you want dinner?

 

It was automatic for my Grandfather and Dad, years of training I suppose.

 

:)

 

ROFL. My mom had a simpler approach. If your hat was on there was no plate at the table for you on which to put your food. She just assumed you were leaving.  ;)

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So let's get rid of all signs of respect then?

 

Ask this: Why wear them inside? Because you want to show off your "cool" hat? You're afraid of "hat head"? You're bald?

 

My hats usually look like road-kill so "cool" is off the list.  I don't mind hat head, and yes, I'm going bald. Those that are, know the importance of a hat on a sunny day.   :)

 

I can see why some people find hats irksome and often disrespectful, but there are hundreds of different ways to show someone respect.  For those that don't wear hats at all, I'm sure they figured out a few of them over the years.  Men no longer stand when a woman enters the room, Nor do they stand when a woman rises from the table to leave, they don't always walk on the street side of the walkway, nor do they hold doors for others.  Most of the time guys don't hold doors for women unless they want to get "the Look" and is now even considered by some to show disrespect.

 

With the rapidly changing cultural norms going on around us, we can't always rely on the tried and true of 50 years ago when it comes to social manners.  I'm thinking that even a Scout helping an old lady across the street is a thing of the past.  

 

When it comes to showing respect, one can always rely on the old standard of a smile and be sure to say please and thank you.  Those three things still speak respect in our culture.

 

Hats?  For some it's still a concern and I try to adhere to the standard a bit.  I wear a hat all the time, but unless I'm going into a church or restaurant, I don't always remember to take it off.  I don't even view it as an issue of respect except in church.  Restaurants?  I don't like to eat with a hat on, respect isn't even in the mix.

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Change the issue from taking off hats indoors to stopping and standing still for the raising/lowering of the US flag.

 

Should you do it out of respect? How far away do you need to be to not stand still.

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Change the issue from taking off hats indoors to stopping and standing still for the raising/lowering of the US flag.

 

Should you do it out of respect? How far away do you need to be to not stand still.

 

There are two distinct reasons for showing respect. One external and one internal.  I can be blocks away and stand still for a flag raising/lowering and people might stare and write me off as an addled old man staring off into space.  Yet it is important for me (internally) to do that.  Externally would stand and people can see why you might be doing that because of the direction I'm facing and what it is that I am watching.  

 

It's kind of like the same routine for the local parades.  In recent years, all the American flag lines are at the front of the parade and everyone stands for that section of the parade.  All subsequent units don't carry flags, but then along comes some float with a flag on it.  Do you stand or sit?  Take off your hat or reach for another cold one.    I don't think it's any indication of respect when units go by with flag after flag and after a parade, one feels like they have enough aerobic exercise to last a month.  Who's disrespecting whom?  Put one flag at the front and let the spectators enjoy the parade without having to yo-yo with every passing unit.

 

Again, this goes back to whether one is measuring the respect internally or externally.  After 25 flag units having gone by, I'm thinking enough respect has been shown.  Grab another cold one and don't worry about it. 

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