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Just came back from a local council office's shop. Talking to the individual behind the counter, they were extremely surprised I heard about the BSA going coed in January. Although they said it would be January at the earliest.

 

BRACE YOURSELVES, GIRLS ARE COMING.

 

January seems an odd time, midway in program year. There is increasing talk in my old pack to unofficially allow (more) girls to participate this Sept at start of the program year. Some do already, notably daughters of den leaders. Some went to Cub resident camp. Want to tell those moms their daughters can't participate?

 

National's survey is becoming moot.  Local units assume it is coming and  will already have it figured out.

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Scouts do learn from their role models.  But they have way more time and more role models outside scouting than in scouting.  We can emphasize and teach in our own troop, but our scouts interact with

I'm wondering if the town halls are really more about telling than asking.   Barry

On the other side of the issue, I am already fielding emails from parents saying that if Boy Scouts goes coed, they are leaving the troop. I am getting no interest from girls for the troop. 

 

I am getting interest in Venturing. The girls there simply don't want the baggage Boy Scouts comes with.

What do they mean by baggage?

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"Baggage" at this age could be the grind of advancement, crossover helicopter parents, splitting into groups of eight when your posse is 15 strong, wanting to master something your troop has no interest in, Uniforming like a third world general, patches for practically sneezing, ...

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I'd love to have the option for my kids to go to the school they want, but we have to live in the reality that is. They can only to the school that will accept them despite the fact both have straight A's and scored over 1300 on their SATs and over 30 on their ACTs. They just have the wrong color skin or are the wrong religion or come from the wrong state and cannot get in.

 

Rather than complaining they find the school that allows them in and wants them.

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So we shouldn't complain about segregated schools?

 

You said you weren't hearing from girls who wanted to join.  Now you've heard.  And since this discussion hasn't left the confines of the Scouter-bubble, I'm sure you'll hear from more soon.

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So we shouldn't complain about segregated schools?

 

You said you weren't hearing from girls who wanted to join.  Now you've heard.  And since this discussion hasn't left the confines of the Scouter-bubble, I'm sure you'll hear from more soon.

 

I'm guessing Flagg is referring to private schools and colleges, and we shouldn't complain about their selection criteria. I suspect that on the whole it's their loss. We'll see in the next decade.

 

Wanting to join? You said you'd sign them up if that's what they wanted. So I took that to mean you hadn't asked them.

 

My daughter (who I signed up for BSA as soon as she was age-eligible) wanted to go camping as when her brothers went. Did she want to muck about at troop meetings? Be in a patrol? Etc ...? Not really (at least not until her current job running rigs with a bunch of rough-necks for her posse). She had a clique of about 4, and they did give it a go. But it was nothing like what I've seen when any random bunch of eight guys were asked to pull together for months on end.

 

I thought my Italian scout would attract a few of the ladies who were on the fence about our crew. At least she would encourage the ones whose parents were enthusiastic about scouting.  The opposite happened. Their enthusiasm for theater infected her.

 

I'm willing to allow that my community may have a particular bunch of American girls who are stuck in a fad. Other communities seem to be different. But I think it's a very long bet that this will swell our ranks. I'm guessing it will just change the boy:girl mix to something like 19:1 for quite some time. With continuing net membership decline in the 6-18 year age range.

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Well I watched the video and took the survey.  Looks like they want to what i call the Finnish Model: Cub Scouts is coed, then split into Boy Scouts and Girl Guides from approx. 1-approx 15, then coed, I think Venturers. It's been over 20 years since I saw this in play, so bear with me.

 

While I would not mind the BSA using the Finnish model, in reality it would not work here. There are folks who will not be happy with "Separate but equal."  Let's face it, IT ALREADY EXISTS WITH THE GIRL SCOUTS OF THE USA AND PEOPLE ARE COMPLAINING INSTEAD OF FIXING GSUSA'S PROBLEMs. (emphasis, not shouting).  

 

And in all honesty, the palm survey really struck a nerve. National went against 94% of those polled with "insta-palms." 94% is almost a unanimous agreement. My gut tells me BSA will be going coed on or before August 1, 2018.

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Well I watched the video and took the survey.  Looks like they want to what i call the Finnish Model: Cub Scouts is coed, then split into Boy Scouts and Girl Guides from approx. 1-approx 15, then coed, I think Venturers. It's been over 20 years since I saw this in play, so bear with me.

 

While I would not mind the BSA using the Finnish model, in reality it would not work here. There are folks who will not be happy with "Separate but equal."  Let's face it, IT ALREADY EXISTS WITH THE GIRL SCOUTS OF THE USA AND PEOPLE ARE COMPLAINING INSTEAD OF FIXING GSUSA'S PROBLEMs. (emphasis, not shouting).  

 

And in all honesty, the palm survey really struck a nerve. National went against 94% of those polled with "insta-palms." 94% is almost a unanimous agreement. My gut tells me BSA will be going coed on or before August 1, 2018.

Eagle, I understand your frustration.  But speaking as a former GSA leader, the GSA isn't going to fix anything, because what "we" view as problems, aren't problems to them.  The GSA is on a totally different wave length than the BSA.  Which is their privilege.  But it sure leaves a bunch of girls in limbo who want a BSA-outdoor-oriented program, but have nowhere to go to get it until they turn 14 and become a Venture Scout. 

 

So they sit and stew until age 14.  I know, as my Brownie daughter realized at the age of 10 what the BSA does.  I still remember this conversation with her:

 

Daughter:  "I want to be in Boy Scouts."

Me:  "Sorry kiddo, you have to be 14."

Daughter:  "We don't do any of this cool stuff in Girl Scouts, I want to quit and join Boy Scouts."

Me: "The BSA doesn't allow girls to join until age 14."

Pause

Daughter:  "I've got to wait four years?  WHAT A RIPOFF!"

 

So she waited those four years.  Not happily, mind you.  But she's made up for lost time since.  She's at Jambo as we speak, loving it, and sending me quotes from President Trump's speech in near-real time. :)

Edited by desertrat77
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I am not saying the Girls Scouts have problems. Girls, like your daughter, are the ones saying the GSUSA has problems.

 

When the BSA went off the tracks in the 1970s, it listened to it's members, got Bill out of retirement, and went back to basics. I think that is why BSA is in better shape/

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Eagle, I understand your frustration.  But speaking as a former GSA leader, the GSA isn't going to fix anything, because what "we" view as problems, aren't problems to them.  The GSA is on a totally different wave length than the BSA.  Which is their privilege.  But it sure leaves a bunch of girls in limbo who want a BSA-outdoor-oriented program, but have nowhere to go to get it until they turn 14 and become a Venture Scout. 

 

So they sit and stew until age 14.  I know, as my Brownie daughter realized at the age of 10 what the BSA does.  I still remember this conversation with her:

 

Daughter:  "I want to be in Boy Scouts."

Me:  "Sorry kiddo, you have to be 14."

Daughter:  "We don't do any of this cool stuff in Girl Scouts, I want to quit and join Boy Scouts."

Me: "The BSA doesn't allow girls to join until age 14."

Pause

Daughter:  "I've got to wait four years?  WHAT A RIPOFF!"

 

So she waited those four years.  Not happily, mind you.  But she's made up for lost time since.  She's at Jambo as we speak, loving it, and sending me quotes from President Trump's speech in near-real time. :)

Admirable. But destroying Boy Scouts for the millions in it is not the answer. Getting girls in to Venturing or having Girl Scouts fix their own program is the answer.

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I guess I am still unclear about precisely what awful things are supposed to happen if the BSA goes coed. Yes I've read and done my best to understand arguments to the contrary. What am I missing?

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...Getting girls in to Venturing or having Girl Scouts fix their own program is the answer.

 

It's an answer, but not to the question National has been asking. They don't care really about serving the demand for a BSA-like program for girls. The video outlines their desire to better serve families overall, and specifically make scouting easier to participate in by not excluding girls and splitting up the family. 

 

Hypothetically, if GSUSA fixed their program and fulfilled the need for a more outdoorsy BSA-like program, I suspect National would still be making this move. Because it has nothing to do with available programs. It's a membership drive, with the aim of making scouting more "accessible" or more family-schedule-friendly. 

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I am not saying the Girls Scouts have problems. Girls, like your daughter, are the ones saying the GSUSA has problems.

 

When the BSA went off the tracks in the 1970s, it listened to it's members, got Bill out of retirement, and went back to basics. I think that is why BSA is in better shape/

 

My daughter didn't say the GSA had problems that needed fixing--rather, the GSA doesn't offer anything remotely resembling what the BSA does.   The GSA is under no obligation to do so, because they have their mission, and those that like it join and stay.  Don't like the GSA?  Then we should find something else to do.    I have no issues with that.

 

I guess I'm trying to address the anti-coed argument that "The girls have the GSA, let them go there" and "If they don't like the GSA, change it."  It's not an option...the GSA is the GSA, and I don't see them offering a parallel program as mentioned in National's video. 

 

We have a large population of girls that want to be a part of the BSA, primarily for the outdoor emphasis.  For once, National is trying to get ahead of the inevitable and initiate change that they can control, instead of getting behind the eight ball (like they normally do).

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