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RememberSchiff

Outside Magazine: Boy Scouts Should Allow Girls

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zzzzZZzZzZz.  If Boy Scouts was about the outdoors, maybe I'd agree.   There are however countless programs dedicated to "the outdoors".   Boy Scouts is about developing Boys.  period. 

 

Well said.

 

Barry

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stop talking about logic and planning.  push a button, it's 2017. 

 

LOL...too funny.

 

Separate facilities are mostly already done here in Northeast. Many camps book non-scout groups.

 

Not here. No where near. We struggle to handle the few Venturing Crew women we have. I could not imagine troops of 50 or more either all or part coed. 

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Before ANY discussion can start about girls in Boy Scouts, local councils would need to address how they will deliver the Scouting program at their summer camps. Right now many camps barely have the facilities to accommodate female Scouters, let alone a whole troop of girls (or even a mix of girls).

 

I know my own council camp has trouble with even adults using the "flip the shingle" gender-use sign. Imagine all male units having to change their whole mind set around toilet and shower sharing.

 

You can't just flip a switch and become coed. Venturing has taught us that. There has to be significant thought given to facilities and whether or not there is adequate infrastructure to accommodate coed Scouting.

 

I'm in the PNW, most of my councils camps already offer girls weeks of summer camp, and do so successfully, so why not alternate weeks for camp? One week boys, the next girls, the following boys, then girls, and so on. Is there a reason that wouldn't work?

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I'm in the PNW, most of my councils camps already offer girls weeks of summer camp, and do so successfully, so why not alternate weeks for camp? One week boys, the next girls, the following boys, then girls, and so on. Is there a reason that wouldn't work?

 

Only if units are all girl or all boys. At that point why open Boy Scouts to girls? Separate but equal?

 

@@RememberSchiff, Had to laugh at that BSA report.No way any camps we go to are set up for girls.

Edited by Col. Flagg

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"Because [current year]" has to be one of the lamest arguments for anything.

Agreed. It is right there with, "that's the way we have always done it."

 

Both arguments are examples of logical fallacies, albeit opposites of each other. The first is an appeal to novelty, while the other is an appeal to tradition.

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Only if units are all girl or all boys. At that point why open Boy Scouts to girls? Separate but equal?

 

@@RememberSchiff, Had to laugh at that BSA report.No way any camps we go to are set up for girls.

Well, I can only offer my point of view, but here is how I see it.

 

I would like to point out again, that I'm not necessarily for coed BSA, I'm also not necessarily against it. But if I were to be in favor of it, my main reason is the programming. Not to have my daughter spend all her time with boys in a pack or troop, or to have my son spend all his time with girls in a pack or troop. I see the merit of having single gendered packs/troops. Boys able to be boys without worrying about girls. Girls able to be girls without worrying about boys.

 

The BSA far and away offers the kind of character development I'm looking for, for BOTH of my children. GSUSA does not work for my family, and speaking with the other parents of daughters I know who would be in favor of opening up BSA membership to girls, it doesn't work for many other families. So yes, separate but equal would be a wonderful solution, IF I were to be in favor. Which, I don't know if I am or not. 

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Agreed. It is right there with, "that's the way we have always done it."

 

Both arguments are examples of logical fallacies, albeit opposites of each other. The first is an appeal to novelty, while the other is an appeal to tradition.

Hmm, I have not seen "that's the way we have always done it." used in this discussion.

 

Barry

 

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@@RememberSchiff, Had to laugh at that BSA report.No way any camps we go to are set up for girls.

I'd say their time is running out as BSA camps, maybe your Council plans to sell them.

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My concern about coed Scouting is this; What is best for our BOYS?   (emphasis not shouting) As others have pointed out, there is a double standard when it comes to girls, they can have their own organizations and practice essentially sexism, but when it comes to boys, they cannot have their own organizations.

 

What i found interesting in another thread on this topic is that the Girl Scout representative stated that research shows that girls do better in an all female environment, and no one argues with it. But when the same research shows the same thing with boys, that they learn better in an all male environment, the research is disregarded, and attempts to show it as inconclusive or not thorough enough.

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This really doesn't seem that hard if you charter only single sex units (i.e. all boy or all girl packs & troops).  

 

Summer camp - in the short term, reserve one or more weeks over the summer for all girl weeks.  Longer term, if there is interest expand camps or build new facilities.

 

Camporees - Hold separate camporees - one for boys, one for girls.  

 

Doing what's best for boys - this doesn't impact that.  Its still parents of boys running boy scout troops.  How does this impact that?

 

Separate but equal - During the civil rights movement, accommodations were not equal because the quality of those accommodations were not determined by those groups.  In the case of all girl troops or packs, the quality of those units would be determined by local leaders.  The BSA has little to do with unit quality.

 

This all doesn't seem like that big a deal.

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We had female staff members at summer camps in 1978. We had female staff members at Maine National High Adventure Base when I worked there in the mid-1980's. The BSA figured it out way back then - it can certainly figure it out now.

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Looking in a few observations and questions….

 

Any article that starts that by using a few cheesy buzz words should be binned by the editor. Painful to read.

 

It’s now 25 years since I was a 13 year old boy (more’s the pity!) in that time I’ve noticed a couple of things change in the UK. When I was 13 it was almost unheard of to have a purely plutonic friend of the opposite sex. Yes at 13 the first hints of dating were on the cards, there was the odd friendship between boys and girls here and there. But it was a pretty unusual thing to see. I had one female school friend when I was a teenager, and the hard time I got about that was extraordinary! 25 years later and watching teenagers, not just at scouts, but in the street, in public, everything seems to have changed. Gangs of friends are naturally mixed. There’s the odd gang of boys and the odd one of girls but mixed is the norm. I can’t confess to knowing where that has come from, but come about it has.

 

Genuine question, has there been any similar change in the USA?

 

Another thing has been the ‘esprit de corps at scouts. In the UK this has always been at troop level rather than patrol level. At least as far as my experience can see.  When I was a kid any given scout would identify themselves as a member of a troop. The patrols were simply how the troop would organise itself. While it was that way when I was a teenager I think it has become more so in recent years. The PLs would rather work together to run something as a troop than individually as a patrol.

 

My thought is that both of those reasons is why mixed scouting has worked in the UK. Would it work in the USA or any other country where it is still single sex? I don’t know.

 

Something to leave you with though are 3 photos, all 3 are some of my favourites, all were taken on a camp way back in 2011. Sometimes boys are just boys, sometimes girls want to hang with the girls and sometimes they all just end up in a big heap together. In a mixed troop they can get to do all 3.

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My concern about coed Scouting is this; What is best for our BOYS?   (emphasis not shouting) As others have pointed out, there is a double standard when it comes to girls, they can have their own organizations and practice essentially sexism, but when it comes to boys, they cannot have their own organizations.

 

What i found interesting in another thread on this topic is that the Girl Scout representative stated that research shows that girls do better in an all female environment, and no one argues with it. But when the same research shows the same thing with boys, that they learn better in an all male environment, the research is disregarded, and attempts to show it as inconclusive or not thorough enough.

 

quoted for emphasis. 

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