NJCubScouter 1389 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 No, they are "gathering input" through council-level meetings and online surveys. There is a thread about all this titled "A letter from my SE." Link to post Share on other sites
Zuse 9 Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Truth be told, I think that these council-level meetings that they are having are just a formality. No amount of feedback is going to change BSA's mind on their course to opening it up to girls beyond what already exists in Sea Scouts, Venturing, etc. It's inevitable because the BSA is, in the end, a business. In order to keep the program alive from a financial standpoint, they need to open it up to increase membership. Unfortunately that will only slow, but not reverse, the trend of decreasing membership because BSA membership has been in constant decline since its peak in the 1970s. As sad as it makes me, the BSA will become a fringe program regardless of what (or how many) adjustments they make to accommodate other groups or trends in society. Its combination of program features are less in demand today than ever, even though I think all that it stands for is needed more than ever. Either course forward for the BSA leads to the same outcome: BSA keeps to its "timeless values", retaining the approval and support of many chartered organizations and families that participate because that's what they're looking for. They lose out on more corporate sponsors, donors, and will increasingly be a target for groups that accuse the BSA of being bigoted, intolerant, etc. BSA changes its "timeless values" to try to capture a wider audience, but they lose the support of many already in the program that want those "timeless values". BSA loses its unique flavor and becomes just another youth or outdoor program, a shadow of its former self. Link to post Share on other sites
RememberSchiff 3662 Posted July 31, 2017 Author Share Posted July 31, 2017 (edited) Ever notice how "timeless values" change over time? What if after President Trump's speech at Jambo, female interest in joining the BSA dramatically dropped. Er, nevermind. Edited July 31, 2017 by RememberSchiff 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Gwaihir 198 Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 If this goes through... I see this playing out as such:new resources, materials get dedicated to facilitating this. you see a brief influx of girls join (but no where near a 100% increase of heads joining as some believe). you see a drop off of families who wish boy and cub scouts to stay single gender girls quit after a while and numbers drop bsa sees bottom line numbers of girls drop, changes program in effort to stem girl departure (ie, become more like girl scouts/reduce camping/hiking/service requirements) more people leave genie is out of bottle, so they can't go boy only again for fear of outrage/outcasting the small % of girls still left in numbers continue to dwindle bsa doa in 10-15 years. Theyve already made earning Eagle far easier than ever before in an attempt to prop up numbers for recruitment. They will continue to modify/chip/change the program till it's no longer recognizable and it'll be far to late to save it. anyway, thats my humble opinion. maybe im proven wrong. we shall see I guess. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
EmberMike 144 Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 ...BSA loses its unique flavor and becomes just another youth or outdoor program, a shadow of its former self. So being mostly single-gender is the BSA's "unique flavor"? I guess I've been wrong all these years, because I thought the unique flavor of the BSA was leadership development, outdoor skills, community service, adventure, character development, Eagle, etc... Link to post Share on other sites
EmberMike 144 Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 ... bsa sees bottom line numbers of girls drop, changes program in effort to stem girl departure (ie, become more like girl scouts/reduce camping/hiking/service requirements) ... There is no way they'd do that. Part of Surbaugh's presentation about this referenced the drop in similar organizations, including GSUSA. Why would they reference another grout that is experiencing the same membership decline, and then modify themselves to be more like that same organization? The whole point of this plan is to not be like those other organizations and change the trajectory of the BSA. I'll admit I don't always get why National does some of the things they do. But there's no way they'd do this one. Never happen. If there's anything that could pretty much be universally acknowledged as organizational suicide for the BSA, it would be to become more like GSUSA. Link to post Share on other sites
Col. Flagg 909 Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 We continue to trust an organization that repeatedly shoots itself in the foot to NOT do it again? Really? I'd bet on the fact they will. The question is how much damage will they do to themselves? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
RememberSchiff 3662 Posted July 31, 2017 Author Share Posted July 31, 2017 If this goes through... I see this playing out as such: new resources, materials get dedicated to facilitating this. you see a brief influx of girls join (but no where near a 100% increase of heads joining as some believe). you see a drop off of families who wish boy and cub scouts to stay single gender girls quit after a while and numbers drop bsa sees bottom line numbers of girls drop, changes program in effort to stem girl departure (ie, become more like girl scouts/reduce camping/hiking/service requirements) more people leave genie is out of bottle, so they can't go boy only again for fear of outrage/outcasting the small % of girls still left in numbers continue to dwindle bsa doa in 10-15 years. Theyve already made earning Eagle far easier than ever before in an attempt to prop up numbers for recruitment. They will continue to modify/chip/change the program till it's no longer recognizable and it'll be far to late to save it. anyway, thats my humble opinion. maybe im proven wrong. we shall see I guess. How many women appear in National BSA org chart and at what level? Link to post Share on other sites
Gwaihir 198 Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 There is no way they'd do that. Part of Surbaugh's presentation about this referenced the drop in similar organizations, including GSUSA. Why would they reference another grout that is experiencing the same membership decline, and then modify themselves to be more like that same organization? The whole point of this plan is to not be like those other organizations and change the trajectory of the BSA. I'll admit I don't always get why National does some of the things they do. But there's no way they'd do this one. Never happen. If there's anything that could pretty much be universally acknowledged as organizational suicide for the BSA, it would be to become more like GSUSA. tunnel vision makes you do foolish things when you're focused on fixing a singular problem without broadening your scope. Never happen? I've heard "never happen" too many times in my life, only to watch that very thing happen. never happen doesn't exist. Link to post Share on other sites
Gwaihir 198 Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 How many women appear in National BSA org chart and at what level? i dont know, but im curious to know that as well. Link to post Share on other sites
Gwaihir 198 Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 So being mostly single-gender is the BSA's "unique flavor"? I guess I've been wrong all these years, because I thought the unique flavor of the BSA was leadership development, outdoor skills, community service, adventure, character development, Eagle, etc... of all things things you listed... the only thing uniquely "BSA" is Eagle. Everything else can be found in other groups in some form or another. Being a group that was dedicated to a single-gender environment where those things could be learned and applied was what made it unique. Link to post Share on other sites
Gwaihir 198 Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 from the strenuous life post, I thought ths might make for some interesting, and non-controversial, discussion topic. A website "The Art of Manliness" is launching a new program "The Strenuous Life", which is basically a Boy Scout Program for adults. It will include a handbook and even merit badges. I was wondering what everyone this of the idea. Attached is a link to the website: https://strenuouslife.co/ Please note that I am not endorsing the program, and I have concerns about some of the ideas and information on "The Art of Manliness" website. However, I would be curious to know what everyone thinks. what is the over/under on how long until the BSA, in the interest of raising membership numbers and funds, opens up Eagle Scout to everyone and no longer discriminating against age. I'd wager it's been discussed already and wouldn't be entirely off the table if this gains any kind of traction. I can't think of a better way to serve today's family than allowing mom and dad, uncle jim, grandma tilly and aunt beth the ability to journey on the trail to eagle along with petey and sally. Link to post Share on other sites
Zuse 9 Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 It's unfortunate that many people equate a single-gender environment or organization with automatically being discriminatory, as if it's done out of malice. Discrimination, in the sense being talked about, has everything to do with an intent to do harm to those groups being left out. That is not why Scouting is boy-only. It was in Scouting that I learned from male role models--including my own father--that living the values and treating all others with respect, including women, isn't something only to be done when you are around those people. You do it all the time, and your speech, character and conduct should be consistent no matter where you are or who is present. In these mentors, I saw what I wanted to become as a future husband, father and servant of others, and being an adult scouter now reminds me constantly of how important those lessons were to me, and how important it is that I don't tarnish the good name of Scouting in my example to the youth I serve. If boys are acting in a way that is beneath their privilege, the fault cannot be primarily placed on BSA- that boils down to the example of unit leaders, but even more to the parents of these youth. Scouting is wonderful, but any parent who expects Scouting to parent their child for them and make up for their failures in the home needs to change their priorities. If Scouting values are not taught, reinforced and lived in the home, the incredible potential of each young man is squandered during this crucial time of their lives when they mature and grow into adulthood. After all, it is better to build strong boys than to repair or mend broken men. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
NJCubScouter 1389 Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 What if after President Trump's speech at Jambo, female interest in joining the BSA dramatically dropped. Er, nevermind. At least this time he didn't call any women nasty names or talk about grabbing their body parts. Link to post Share on other sites
RememberSchiff 3662 Posted July 31, 2017 Author Share Posted July 31, 2017 At least this time he didn't call any women nasty names or talk about grabbing their body parts. I think he was heading in that direction with that monkey business yacht story. Link to post Share on other sites
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