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tyke

LDS Dropping Senior Youth Scouting

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I guess guys couldn't teach girls how to set up tents because that would be sexist too. ;)

 

I'm just waiting for the first SJW to attend an OA call out or ordeal and scream "Cultural Misappropriation!!!"

 

That hasn't happened yet?

 

My COR attended a call out once. He's a professional archaeological specializing in American Indians. Fortunately, he found the regalia more amusing than offensive.

 

It appeared to him something like this:

period_speech.png

Edited by Saltface
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I guess guys couldn't teach girls how to set up tents because that would be sexist too. ;)

 

 

 

Don't want commit the mortal sin of "mansplaining"!

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The  Baptists do not have a national "policy setting" group like LDS or the Roman Catholic church.

 

The Catholic Church does not have a national policy setting group either, at least as far as the BSA is concerned. There's the NCCS, of course, but they don't set policy for the Church.

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The Catholic Church does not have a national policy setting group either, at least as far as the BSA is concerned. There's the NCCS, of course, but they don't set policy for the Church.

 

Is that so?  The units formerly owned by the Knights of Columbus might be surprised to hear it.

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So my limited understanding, Varsity Scouting was created by and for members of the Church of Latter Day Saints who now want to leave it behind. Why not transfer it to them as a lovely parting gift?

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/Resources/ThreeWaysVarsity.aspx

 

https://readtiger.com/wkp/en/Varsity_Scouting_(Boy_Scouts_of_America)#History

 

Does anyone have any non-Mormon membership numbers for Varsity Scouting? Can the BSA drop the program?

From wiki, 2013 membership https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varsity_Scouting_(Boy_Scouts_of_America)

  • 62,902 youth
  • 22,915 adults
  • 8,299 teams (2013)

Disclaimer: As far as I know, I have never seen or met anyone associated in Varsity Scouting. Now UFO's... :)

Edited by RememberSchiff

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On the down side, some of the most reliable venues and best motivated, district, volunteer leadership comes from LDS units.  I would hate to see a reduction in those resources as well.

This is what I am most concerned about from a volunteer perspective because it impacts our local program.

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Is that so?  The units formerly owned by the Knights of Columbus might be surprised to hear it.

That was a Knights of Columbus decision.

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So my limited understanding, Varsity Scouting was created by and for members of the Church of Latter Day Saints who now want to leave it behind. Why not transfer it to them as a lovely parting gift?

 

I don't think there's anything to give, other than the name "Varsity Scouting" and the rank structure, and I don't think the BSA would let them use that without paying the registration fees, nor do I think they would want to use it, since it apparently isn't really working out for them.  The idea of using sports as part of a youth program that also involves camping (if that's what Varsity Scouting is, I'm not even sure), without the trademarked words and names, is not something the BSA has exclusive rights to.

 

I have never seen a Varsity Scout in person.  As I have said before, some troops in NJ have "re-purposed" the Varsity shoulder loops to signify other things.  Once the LDS Church stops using it, the BSA could eliminate that program and ask the few remaining Teams whether they want to become Boy Scout troops, Venture crews, or merge into existing units.

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Wouldn't it be safe to assume that if girls are allowed in, it would certainly be at the younger ages that the LDS church will still be engaged with? I guess it could be optional, akin to LDS Venture units..

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I have never seen a Varsity Scout in person.  As I have said before, some troops in NJ have "re-purposed" the Varsity shoulder loops to signify other things.  Once the LDS Church stops using it, the BSA could eliminate that program and ask the few remaining Teams whether they want to become Boy Scout troops, Venture crews, or merge into existing units.

 

I believe there are a handful of non-LDS Varsity units in my council. I don't see the program surviving next year and most migrating over to Venturing in order to keep doing high-adventure activities.

 

How do traditional scout troops handle activites with age restrictions such as caving or using power tools? 

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My my my ... I take a couple of weeks off, and suddenly I return to find all KINDS of crazy ideas being touted or suggested about both my religion and our relationship to Scouting! But never fear; the answers are here! I am sorry I have been away and unable to represent the LDS perspective amongst you all; for that I apologize. But now that I am here, let me offer a few useful resources to help you all understand what exactly is behind these changes! The following comes from the official LDS Press release; the link to the full article is here: http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/questions-answers-changes-young-men-program

 

 

What exactly is changing?

  • Beginning January 1, 2018, young men from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will no longer participate in the Varsity and Venturing programs offered by the Boy Scouts of America.
  • Instead, Young Men activities will focus on spiritual, social, physical and intellectual goals outlined by the Church. These activities are designed to be fun and meaningful and provide opportunities for personal growth and development.

Why is this change occurring?

  • In most congregations in the United States and Canada, young men ages 14–18 are not being served well by the Varsity or Venturing programs, which have historically been difficult to implement within the Church. This change will allow youth and leaders to implement a simplified program that meets local needs while providing activities that balance spiritual, social, physical and intellectual development goals for young men.

Does this mean the Church is completely separating from the BSA?

  • The Church continues to look for ways to meet the spiritual, physical, emotional and intellectual needs of young men around the world. The current decision is consistent with those efforts. The Church will continue to use the Cub Scout and Boy Scout programs for boys and young men ages 8 through 13.

Previous statements have indicated that the Church wants a program that serves all young men around the world. Is this it?

  • No, this is not the global program, but an important step that addresses an immediate need. Varsity and Venturing programs have been difficult to run effectively on a local level. The Church continues to work toward developing a program for young men and young women globally.  

Why is the Church remaining with the Cub Scout and Boy Scout program?

  • These programs currently meet the development program needs of boys from ages 8 through 13.

Why is this change only for the United States and Canada?

  • Varsity and Venturing programs are used only in Church congregations in the United States and Canada.

What has been the reaction of the BSA leadership to this decision?

  • In every discussion with the Boy Scouts of America, they have expressed a shared desire to do what is best for young men. We are grateful for their continued support with this new change and look forward to continuing our strong relationship in the Cub Scout and Boy Scout programs.

How does this impact the financial and property connections of the Church to the BSA?

  • Though important, financial and property obligations are not the primary concern. Instead, we are driven by our desire to serve the spiritual, emotional, physical and intellectual needs of young men.
  • Most of these legal associations are in connection with the Cub Scout and Boy Scout programs.
  • The Church will continue to make the same payment to the BSA for registration of its young men through 2018, so there should be a minimal financial impact to Scouting.

What is the schedule for this announcement and rollout?

  • The announcement was shared on May 11, 2017. However, the discontinuation of the Varsity and Venturing programs will not occur until January 1, 2018. We encourage local units to continue with their planned activities as they review and determine how they will implement the new activity guidelines.

Can young men in these age groups continue to earn the Eagle Scout award?

  • Yes. Young men who desire to continue toward the rank of Eagle will be registered, supported and encouraged. It is important to remember that only those young men who are properly registered are eligible to be awarded merit badges and rank advancements.

What would you say to Church members about participation in the Friends of Scouting fundraising drive?

  • The Church will continue to be involved in Friends of Scouting as part of its relationship with the BSA and the Scouting programs for boys and young men ages 8 through 13.

Is this due to changes in Scout policy in the past few years to allow gay and transgender Scouts and leaders?

  • The BSA has always allowed the Church to operate its programs in ways that are consistent with our standards and beliefs, and they have been very supportive. This change is to address the needs of young men ages 14 to 18. The Church is always evaluating what is best for our youth and families, and will continue to do so.
  • The activities referenced on lds.org/youth/activities and ymactivities.lds.org have been in place since 2013 as a resource for youth and their leaders around the world. When followed, these activities can provide better opportunities for spiritual, physical, emotional and intellectual growth.

Is the guideline that Young Men aren’t required to meet weekly a new directive?

  • No. This guideline (for both Young Men and Young Women) has existed in the Church’s handbook for many years.

Will the disparity of funding and activities that exists between the Church’s Young Men and Young Women programs be addressed as part of this change?

  • Church leaders have long been aware of this concern. This new program brings the spending into balance for youth ages 14 through 18. This will continue to be a factor in the ongoing exploration and creation of a worldwide youth program.
  • In each congregation, the ward council is encouraged to consider equally the needs of Young Women and Young Men and their families when planning activities and determining budgets. 

Is this a reaction to the news that the Boy Scouts of America is considering the inclusion of girls and young women in its programs?

  • Church leaders learned just recently about the BSA’s intent to consider including girls and young women in Scouting. Our decision to end our participation in the Varsity and Venturing programs was made independent of this possibility and before that time. We anticipate our Cub Scout and Boy Scout units will continue as they are at present. For additional information go to: Aaronic Priesthood 14-18 Activities.

 

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A few more points to help you all understand WHY Varsity and Venturing have struggled in many LDS units:

 

- LDS units are organized geographically, and are run by a lay clergy, meaning all leadership positions within any congregation, including all Scouting leaders, must come from within the ranks of the congregation itself. Considering how many other responsibilities need to be filled by the local members to run the church programs effectively, it can be hard to find qualified leaders to fill all the needed roles, and the Scouting program is not necessarily at the top of our list of priorities.

 

- Each LDS Scouting unit is composed primarily of boys from within that congregation itself. So if there are only 3 or 4 boys in the congregation who are venturing age, that becomes the whole of the venturing crew. The small numbers of our units thus make is hard to run full-scale programs at the level of Varsity and Venturing, and when compounded with the difficulty of finding enough leaders to run the programs, it becomes a heavy strain to run these two programs as they should be run.

 

- We are NOT reacting to any issues with co-ed Scouting, gender-identity issues, or other current political controversies - if we were, why would we keep the Boy Scout program and the Cub Scout programs? It is only with older boys that we have encountered problems, and so we are creating our own programs both to meet their needs and alleviate the difficulties we have faced in implementing the Varsity and Venturing programs as they should be run.

 

If anybody has other questions, I will try to keep an eye on this thread over the next few days to see if I can help clarify things. I hope what I have already posted will help enlighten some of us on the motives behind this change!

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How do traditional scout troops handle activites with age restrictions such as caving or using power tools? 

 

Can't answer the power tools part of your question, but can answer the caving one.

 

When Leadership Corps became venture crews in 1989, then venture patrols in 1998, a series of pin recognition was created for HA type activities that they could earn. BSA based the program on the Varsity program. The Varsity letter became the Varsity/Venture letter, and the venture pins were created.. From 1989 to sometime after 1996, the pins were restricted both to purchase and to specific program. So all the sports related pins were Varsity pins and restricted to Varsity Scouts being able to earn them and teams purchasing them. All HA activity pins were Venture pins, with only Boy Scouts being able to earn them and troops being able to buy them.  

 

 

Sometime after 1997, I'm thinking August 1998 but do not know for sure, Varsity Teams and venture patrols could earn either set of pins. And like the Varsity/Venture letter, the pins became Varsity/Venture pins instead of Varsity Pins and Venture Pins.

 

In my home council, neither Varsity or venture was popular. None of the Varsity pins ever sold, and the only Varsity/Venture letter and Venture pins (backpacking and survival), that were sold was me buying them to promote the venture program. It never took off.

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How do traditional scout troops handle activites with age restrictions such as caving or using power tools?

 

Easy...the PLC has a second activity for the younger scouts or they have the younger scouts use the tools they are allowed to.

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