Adults taking more offsite breaks during summer camp?

[CherokeeScouter 32]

As usual, leave it to us to take something as simple as this and dissect it, boil it, and stomp all over it. Here's how it works. 

 

1. Two adults in camp - Always.

2. Golf - Never. Ditto for any thing  that takes you away for more than 2 hours. 

3. Lunch out at the nearest rib shack - absolutely. Would probably do this a couple of times. 

4. WalMart run. Absolutely. Best combine it with number 3. 

5. All adults on site after supper. 

 

First Winter Camp, the third and most experienced leader bailed on the first day and went trail riding on his bike in a nearby National Forest. We were furious. Just me and another newbie. Didn't even have the decency to tell us he was leaving. Just left. 

[Col. Flagg 909]

In the bigger question, why should you care what the adult is doing on their time if they aren't required in camp? It has the appearance of control to me.

 

And bugging out on the Scouts with a do-what-I-say-not-what-I-do mentality smacks of selfishness to me. Adults attending camp are supposed to be there (in camp) for the Scouts. Training, sure. Fun stuff planned for adults by the camp, sure. If your unit's adults head out of camp for fun, great. Not my thing. I'd rather be there for our unit. Note: Not control the unit as you imply, but just to be around and show them I am available to them if needed.

 

Most camps our unit goes to limit the number of adults in camp for this reason alone, too many were heading off camp to go do "stuff". Sadly, many let their troops run around like Lord of the Flies, hence the rule. Note THEIR rule, not mine. Many camps also require a strict ratio of adults (and trained leaders) to Scouts. These same camps really limit the coming and going of folks. These are some of the most popular camps in the country.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Col. Flagg

[Eagledad 2777]

First Winter Camp, the third and most experienced leader bailed on the first day and went trail riding on his bike in a nearby National Forest. We were furious. Just me and another newbie. Didn't even have the decency to tell us he was leaving. Just left. 

That was unscout-like at the very least and role models a bad example of patrol method.

 

Question: if I could complete a round of golf in two hours, am I good to go?

 

Barry

[Eagledad 2777]

And bugging out on the Scouts with a do-what-I-say-not-what-do mentality smacks of selfishness to me.

I can assure you that the scouts are respected equally as the adults. If they have a suggestion for an off camp activity to enhance their summer camp experience, they will find willing ears here. I don't think you are reading the posts.

 

I wonder if you assume the strict rules of camps. We ask for special favors and request all the time without any problems.

 

Barry

Edited May 3, 2017 by Eagledad

[gumbymaster 98]

So this begs the question: What do we teach the Scouts when they are expected to stay in camp and "enjoy" themselves, but adults go outside camp for reasons that are, shall we say, contrived for their own personal pleasure.

 

 

 

Stosh, we don't need to list all the reasons a adult would go offsite. I think it is reasonable to assume that running errands on behalf of the boys, the troop or even the camp, are all good reasons. What would be bad reasons? For me it is when an adult leaves camp for things like golfing or to get a burger for himself or other things which demonstrated selfishness as opposed to selflessness.

 

When I was program director for a camp, this usually wasn't an issue.  Cell phones were rare, and the nearest gas station was nearly an hour long windy dirt road away.  People didn't leave camp, but most units had the minimum adult coverage allowed, and in several cases had to be paired up with another unit to have the minimum adult coverage between them.

 

Camps are designed for the enjoyment of the youth.  That's a great purpose, but we really don't want the adults hanging around, hovering over the boys.  The camp is NOT designed for the adults interests or comfort - baring the occasional super scoutmaster type.

 

Given a choice of not enough adults and nobody goes, to making allowances for the adults to: first, meet their other needs and obligations (work, family, etc.) and second, to have a little time to themselves for their own activity that cannot be done in camp; I choose the latter.  Minimum adult coverage at all times.  If that means I need an extra adult or two to allow the adults to cycle out of camp for brief periods, I'll take that as well.

[jwest09 51]

In my large troop, the unofficial official rule has been:

 

1. Each adult gets 1/2 day during the week where they are allowed (and maybe even expected) to head off camp.

2. No more than 2 adults can be off camp at the same time.

 

We obviously adjust the unofficial official rules as needed to ensure we have a proper ratio of adults to youth on camp at all times - but given a relatively large number of adult leaders, this is rarely an issue.

 

I don't really buy the "well, what if there's a medical emergency, and you're off playing golf?" line of reasoning.  The boys are trained in first aid and emergency procedures.  The camp staff are trained and drilled in the same.  The camp has emergency procedures to get the individual the needed attention.  We all have cell phones.  I'd be happy to explain to a parent that, while I personally may have been off duty for 4 of the roughly 144 hours the unit was at camp, there were 50 other people, as qualified or more qualified than myself, who were part of the response to that incident.

 

Regarding the double standard for youth vs adult, I can live with it in this case, because (usually) the adults are taking vacation time, and sacrificing money, family time, etc.  The boys (usually) are not.  The adults, out of the necessity, generally have a greater set of responsibility than the youth.  I find giving our adult leadership a 1/2 day to play golf, have a non-camp meal, go fishing, whatever, keeps them at the top of their game the other 5.5 days of camp.  I also consider it an appropriate way to show gratitude for the sacrifice they are making in order to provide adult supervision and mentoring for a week of high intensity activity, that, frankly, they may not inherently enjoy as much as I do.

 

Having an unofficial official rule for this also makes it easy to address the case of "Well, I'd like to come out to camp, but I need to take a conference call on Tuesday morning..."  Well, you can!  It would be silly for me to try to say, "Grr, no, you can't do that!  Because rules!"  Then, what?, I lose the adult for a full week of camp, and not just a half day?  I don't believe that an appropriate, or practical, way to treat a fellow volunteer.

 

As in all things - this works OK for my unit, but your mileage may vary.

[Stosh 3452]

The camp I will be attending this summer requires only one of the adult leaders present on-site at any given time.

 

All high adventure patrols are off-side for the whole week anyway, supervised by staff.

 

The camp hosts an appreciation golf outing and steak dinner for the adults during the week.

[RememberSchiff 3662]

Let's steer the discussion in a different direction .

 

How long do you think your troop adults (SM, ASM, parents) could separate from your scouts at summer camp without mayhem? Note, the camp staff is there.

 

At what time(s) of the day at camp is a troop adult presence most needed?

[Back Pack 431]

Camp staff are doing their program work. They are not watching your kids unless they are in their program area. Outside of that they're on their own. Unless they are going around as Patrols there's no patrol method being used either. Where's the PL? Rifle range? Lake? Who knows? Where's the SPL?

[RememberSchiff 3662]

I don't understand this fear of scouts being on their own at summer camp.  What happen to the buddy system?

 

The time I am most needed is 4:30-dinner when the camp store is open and selling ice cream and candy with no limits.

[Stosh 3452]

I find the time I'm most needed is after lights out and the new scouts get a bout of homesickness. 

 

Otherwise there's the occasional trading post flu where they over-did the sweets and are now regretting it.  It seems to be my job to escourt the boy to the nurses station so he can contemplate his poor choices.

 

Occasionally a boy will want me to help him with his advancement, which in summer camp I will do so as to not drag the other boys from their activities.

 

I make myself available by reading while in the neutral area where boys and adults can meet if necessary.  Most the days I get quite a bit of reading in.

[Back Pack 431]

The time I am most needed is 4:30-dinner when the camp store is open and selling ice cream and candy with no limits.

Why would you be needed then? I thought Scouts are trusted to make good choices all day. Suddenly they need adults around?

[RememberSchiff 3662]

Maybe I have been lucky as I have experienced few cases of homesickness and they were all rain (monsoon) related.

[RememberSchiff 3662]

Why would you be needed then? I thought Scouts are trusted to make good choices all day. Suddenly they need adults around?

Always exceptions. Like when adults make poor choices and sell sweets to kids before dinner.

Edited May 4, 2017 by RememberSchiff

[Back Pack 431]

Always exceptions. Like when adults make poor choices and sell sweets to kids before dinner.

Odd. Why should you be there to control their sugar intake and not the rest of their day? Why is this the exception? Can't they learn by this poor choice like they would at any other time during the day when adults aren't around? Isn't the staff around to assist? I smell some hypocrisy here.