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A scout is Obedient....or should that be Responsible?

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Of course we are no longer scout like.  We are adults.  We grew up.

 

There are many adult things that don't fit into the scout law.  War is one of them.  It is not possible to wage war in a scout like manner.  

 

The historical fact that the American colonies rebelled against Great Britain has nothing to do with the scout law.  This doesn't make the Revolutionary War wrong, nor does it mean we should change the scout law.

 

The scout law is fine within the context of a game for boys.  It just needs to be understood that the scout law doesn't apply everywhere.

 

I think the scouts of my father's generation understood this while they were conducting scrap drives to collect war materials to make bombs to drop on the boys scouts of enemy countries.

I've never heard anyone reference the Scout Law as only juvenile actions. I encourage  scouts to learn their adult behavior by measuring all their decisions against the scout law during their younger years. Every decisional situation, no matter how small, has a moral right or wrong fate. The 12 points of the law are life long value traits that guide every decision toward a moral outcome.

 

I learned in my life that integrity is directly related to ones ingrained principles. Rarely are an individual's principles developed after their young adult years. No situation is without applying principled values during any decision. Every decision has different possible outcomes that are directly related to how we apply our values. What adult wouldn't want the integrity of a scout?

 

Barry

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I've never heard anyone reference the Scout Law as only juvenile actions. I encourage  scouts to learn their adult behavior by measuring all their decisions against the scout law during their younger years. Every decisional situation, no matter how small, has a moral right or wrong fate. The 12 points of the law are life long value traits that guide every decision toward a moral outcome.

 

I learned in my life that integrity is directly related to ones ingrained principles. Rarely are an individual's principles developed after their young adult years. No situation is without applying principled values during any decision. Every decision has different possible outcomes that are directly related to how we apply our values. What adult wouldn't want the integrity of a scout?

 

Barry

 

The scout law is simplistic.  As such, it is well suited for use in a game for boys.  It is too simplistic to serve as a code of behavior for adults.

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The scout law is simplistic.  As such, it is well suited for use in a game for boys.  It is too simplistic to serve as a code of behavior for adults.

Based from my experiences of life, we will have to agree to disagree.

 

Barry

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For whatever it's worth, one of the examples I used was loyal, not trustworthy.  I had difficulty coming up with a good example of when it's ok not to be trustworthy.  I suppose if you agree to do something but then find out that your work is going to be used for evil purposes, and you decline to do whatever it is, you're not really being untrustworthy.  When you agreed, you did not have all of the relevant information, so your agreement was invalid.  

 

Of course, my apologies...

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"There are many adult things that don't fit into the scout law.  War is one of them.  It is not possible to wage war in a scout like manner. "

 

 

Not sure how much war you have waged, but in my 25 years of military experience, to include command in combat, it is possible to do so and trying to do so to the best of our abilities is what has separated us from our enemies in the conduct of the most ugly of human endeavors.  Have we done so perfectly, of course not,  and many times we have paid a price for that failure but the Scout Law was as good a guidance as any orders, regulations, or training I have been given.   But I guess I am just simple.

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... but the Scout Law was as good a guidance as any orders, regulations, or training I have been given.   But I guess I am just simple.

 

I was going to say something similar.

 

Just because I have had to use a weapon to take someone's life, doesn't make me a bad Christian. 

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I was going to say something similar.

 

Just because I have had to use a weapon to take someone's life, doesn't make me a bad Christian. 

 

It certainly doesn't.

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You guys are sort of wandering off in the weeds. Maybe David's point was that 12 words alone can't teach a scout, or anyone else for that matter, how to be good. Of course, neither can 10, 13, or 613 commandments. If that were the case then the Bible would be a lot shorter.

 

So, to answer the original topic, I don't have a problem with obedient and it ain't broke. I'd leave it as is.

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I think it's worth noting that the Scout Law says a Scout "is" these 12 things.  It does NOT say he is not necessarily other positive things, whether it be responsible, fair, self-reliant, careful, etc., all of which I think are implied in the Scouting program, if not in the words of the Oath and Law.  It does not exclude "a Scout exercises critical thinking", which is something I might add if I were given the power (and if I could find a way to boil it down to one word.)  But I agree with MattR, the Scout Law ain't broke so we don't need to fix it.

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If someone were to offer another all the secrets of the universe, secrets of getting along with everyone they meet, being an above the rest in popularity and charisma, and the person were to say, "That's too simplistic and juvenile." would you listen anyway?

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Above the rest in popularity and charisma?  Seriously?  You can't be talking about boy scouts.

 

"Help other people at all times"  Oh, yes I am talking about boy scouts who actually believe the program is more than box checking and having fun out in the woods.  One goes to school to learn how to live out in the real world, one goes to scouts to learn how to live out in the real world.  Sometimes one's opinion of the school is because the curriculum isn't being effectively taught.  Don't blame the curriculum for ineffective teaching.

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The scouting program has many good features, and my scouts are a great group of kids.  But the boy scouts are definitely not the most popular and charismatic group of boys in the school.

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The scouting program has many good features, and my scouts are a great group of kids.  But the boy scouts are definitely not the most popular and charismatic group of boys in the school.

 

I don't think anyone would disagree with that second sentence.  (There may be exceptions for individual Scouts here and there, but generally it is true.)  But who cares?  And did Stosh say the opposite?  All I saw was him asking a question (post #25 in this thread), which I am not sure I understand, and it did not even specifically mention Scouting.  I'm not even sure you and Stosh are talking about the same thing.

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The scouting program has many good features, and my scouts are a great group of kids.  But the boy scouts are definitely not the most popular and charismatic group of boys in the school.

 

Yeah, popular and charismatic people are often seen as the leaders.  If it were me, I would be asking myself why my boys aren't leading? if that be the case.

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