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Canada Girl Guides restricting scout unit travel to USA

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They didn't. They were a British citizen. They had no reason to suspect they were in one of the categories in the travel ban, as I understand it. Okay, read on...

 

 

If it says he's British, I'd have assumed he has a British passport, if he was an Iraqi, that's moved to Wales to teach, I'd have expected it to say he was an Iraqi citizen.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-39032062

 

"The council confirmed Mr Miah has a British passport and does not have dual nationality. His family's ethnic background is Bangladeshi."

 

I can't see any hiding of information or identity.

 

Of course, the left leaning press may well have made hay on this one, as it suits their agenda, but that doesn't take away that this happened.

 

Yes, I agree, it would always be nice to know a bit more info on the story.

 

Yep, this appears to be totally inappropriate if all the information is correct.  I can't apologize on behalf of the American people, but someone should!

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Yep, this appears to be totally inappropriate if all the information is correct.  I can't apologize on behalf of the American people, but someone should!

Why? Do we have insight in to what the NSA or CIA or CBP might have? We have one side of the story.

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My first awareness came from a Facebook posting of this article:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/hamilton-church-volunteers-denied-entry-to-u-s-so-they-wouldn-t-steal-american-jobs-1.4022969

 

Seems this is a ripple effect, along with a bit of precautionary measure thrown in so youth are not getting stuck at the border.  With youth, things like this can really play havoc on their emotions from excitement to disappointment due to cancellation on the spot without really understanding the full scope, especially after months of planning and looking forward to their trip.

Edited by Deaf Scouter

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Why? Do we have insight in to what the NSA or CIA or CBP might have? We have one side of the story.

 

Totally agree!  We have US citizens committing acts of terrorism.  Until this issue is resolved, I think everyone is trying to err on the side of caution.  It isn't a perfect system and maybe a little patience and understanding might be useful.  But until then everyone has the jitters..... which is exactly what the terrorists want!

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My first awareness came from a Facebook posting of this article:http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/hamilton-church-volunteers-denied-entry-to-u-s-so-they-wouldn-t-steal-american-jobs-1.4022969

 

Seems this is a ripple effect, along with a bit of precautionary measure thrown in so youth are not getting stuck at the border.  With youth, things like this can really play havoc on their emotions from excitement to disappointment due to cancellation on the spot without really understanding the full scope, especially after months of planning and looking forward to their trip.

Ever entered Canada for business? You get grilled about the nature of your meetings and what type of advice you're giving. Your company must be very specific about its role or you run in to the same issues.

 

It goes both ways folks. If you don't follow the rules when crossing borders you risk being detained or sent back. It's not like America is the only country doing this.

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http://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/spending-money-at-home-contributing-to-the-trump-slump-in-the-u-s-1.3324885

 

“The U.S. travel industry already has a name for this. It's called the “Trump Slump,†says David Macdonald. Macdonald is a senior economist with the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives, located in Ottawa.  He says the Girl Guides of Canada is just the latest group to postpone travel to the U.S. and believes the numbers are telling with respect to the economic impact of those decisions.

 

“It does appear that travel into the United States is down about 7%,†he says, “and searches for flights into the U.S. is down 17%.  So more of that tourist money that American communities might get, might well be spent in Canada.â€

About 800 Canadian Girl Guides travel into the U.S. each year.  The Guides say their decision to postpone that travel is intended to ensure safety and equality for all the girls.

 

“It's not a political statement,†says Sarah Kiriliuk with Girl Guides of Canada, “it's a reaction to the realities of what's happening in the world right now.â€

 

Scouts Canada (their BSA) has no plans to postpone trips to the U.S.  In a statement, John Petitti with Scouts Canada said, “As with any Scouting activity involving travel,  we encourage our members to plan their trips carefully, to have all required paperwork in order and to always have alternate plans in case of unexpected developments.†

 

Both the Ottawa Carleton District School Board and the Ottawa Catholic School Board say no trips have been cancelled so far but added that they will continue to monitor the situation, as will many of the shoppers we spoke with today.

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Redacted

 

Then maybe the journalists should do their job and give full information? 

 

Regardless of that fact, any country can deny entry to anyone they like. Just because he's Muslim does not mean that's why he was turned back. We don't know why, so we could easily speculate it was because he was male, had black hair, had facial hair or maybe because he was British. We just don't know, so why speculate?

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I would think it up to the journalist/editorialist to do the research.  One of the reasons the media is taking a beating today is the fact that they don't.  I would love to be able to trust the media, but as one can see from the original post, no reference is explicitly stated this gentleman is a UK citizen.  A red flag goes up and I commented as such.  It is not my job to vet these people, there are those that are supposed to be doing it.  Like any other average citizen, we must rely on our people in authority doing their jobs correctly and that includes media with slated agendas.  When they don't the only ones that suffer are those reading the trade rags posting as legitimate journalists.  I seriously believe in our country, those people no longer exist.  Read everything carefully and be aware that there is always major spin involved.

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Well, of course the recent governmental activity is going to adversely affect travel.  And, not to try to steer this thread back to the subject of Scouting or anything, it is probably going to adversely affect attendance at the 2019 World Jamboree, but of course we won't know that until we know what things end up looking like after court proceedings, probably more revised executive orders, etc.  I just looked at the World Jamboree 2019 Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/pg/2019wsj/posts/?ref=page_internal) and there are a few negative posts mixed in among the general eager anticipation for the jamboree.  I don't know whether the nations of Sudan, Somalia, Yemen etc. generally send delegations to the World Jamborees or not, so the direct impact is something I can't even guess at.  It will be interesting to see whether there is any impact on the enthusiasm of the nations of Europe, etc. for this world jamboree.

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Well, of course the recent governmental activity is going to adversely affect travel.  

 

But if you look at what @@backpack posted, it hasn't really.

 

Can we agree we should post statistics or cite sources if we are going to make statements like this? We usually ask people to cite BSA sources when giving advice or feedback on a substantive issue. One would think we would do the same for issues like this. The information is there for people to cite rather than making statements one way or the other.

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But if you look at what @@backpack posted, it hasn't really.

 

Can we agree we should post statistics or cite sources if we are going to make statements like this? We usually ask people to cite BSA sources when giving advice or feedback on a substantive issue. One would think we would do the same for issues like this. The information is there for people to cite rather than making statements one way or the other.

 

I was making a prediction for the future.  People do that in this forum all the time, especially when it comes to the future of the BSA.  Nobody cites statistics for things that haven't happened yet.

 

By the way, the whole point of the policy we are discussing is to reduce travel into the United States.  So, once it actually goes into effect for more than 2 or 3 days at a time, if it "works", there will be less travel.

Edited by NJCubScouter

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Then maybe the journalists should do their job and give full information? 

 

Regardless of that fact, any country can deny entry to anyone they like. Just because he's Muslim does not mean that's why he was turned back. We don't know why, so we could easily speculate it was because he was male, had black hair, had facial hair or maybe because he was British. We just don't know, so why speculate?

I see your point, but, and it's an important but the current US president, during his election campaign, called for a complete bar on muslims travelling to the USA. Now he is in power an individual of Bangladeshi descent, with apparently all the paper work in place (according to the media I'll grant you) has been turned around at the border.

 

That does not of course prove that he was turned around for being muslim, but I think it gives excellent reason to ask the question. And if I was in his shoes it is the thought that would be at the front of my mind.

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I was making a prediction for the future.  People do that in this forum all the time, especially when it comes to the future of the BSA.  Nobody cites statistics for things that haven't happened yet.

 

By the way, the whole point of the policy we are discussing is to reduce travel into the United States.  So, once it actually goes into effect for more than 2 or 3 days at a time, if it "works", there will be less travel.

 

Since the discussion had turned to the Candian Girls and the British teacher, the first part of your comment ("Well, of course the recent governmental activity is going to adversely affect travel.") appeared directed at that current issue and not to the future probability.

 

And no, the whole point of the policy is NOT to reduce travel to the US. The point is to eliminated criminal aliens, terror threats and other nasty things that can happen when you let your guard down. Canada does that today too. The result may be a slight drop in travel. I will take better vetting procedures for increased safety any day. We do that in Scouting now. We do background checks to keep the Scouts safe.

 

 

I see your point, but, and it's an important but the current US president, during his election campaign, called for a complete bar on muslims travelling to the USA. Now he is in power an individual of Bangladeshi descent, with apparently all the paper work in place (according to the media I'll grant you) has been turned around at the border.

 

That does not of course prove that he was turned around for being muslim, but I think it gives excellent reason to ask the question. And if I was in his shoes it is the thought that would be at the front of my mind.

 

One guy got turned back. He's Muslim so everyone starts crying foul because one guy got turned back.

 

Below is a list of all the various things the Customs and Border Patrol has to deal with in January. How many Muslims do you think were in this data? How many were turned back? It is not a perfect system by any means. Heck, the system even went dark last month in a few major ports of entry. But when you deal with this much incoming and out-going stuff you have to have a system. Some times it works. Some times it doesn't. But just because one guy gets turned back does not mean it was because of race, religion, nationality or anything else. It could be a good old mistake. 

 

Month: 1/2017

Trucks: 900,901

Loaded Truck Containers: 655,175

Empty Truck Containers: 236,176

Trains: 3,288

Loaded Rail Containers: 168,914

Empty Rail Containers: 86,767  

Train Passengers:  16,048 

Buses: 20,763

Bus Passengers: 261,237  

Personal Vehicles: 8,539,345 

Personal Vehicle Passengers: 16,313,043

Pedestrians: 3,757,048  

 

https://transborder.bts.gov/programs/international/transborder/TBDR_BC/TBDR_BC_Index.html

Edited by Col. Flagg

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