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Ridgerunner

Problem DE

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If units know how to manage themselves then district becomes irrelevant. If district wants to black ball me from the training committee, great. Nothing keeps me from offering my training to Pack and Troop leaders to help their units. So all you need to do is "end run" the district. They'll be gone in a short period anyway.

 

But, it's very true.  Both the CS pack & BS troop we've been involved with have been strong enough that the district doesn't add much to the equation.

 

It took me a few years to figure this one out.  I've come to understand that the district is really a peer organization to the units.  The district provides support to the units, but they are not the "boss" of the units.  Don't like what the DE tells you - just ignore him.  The unit belongs to the CO - end of story.  Your status as a volunteer rests with the institutional head (and by extension the COR).   Sure - in extreme cases, the Council could revoke your membership.  But, in reality no council is going to run around pulling Scouter's memberships because they ignored the DE.  It's not worth the SE's time.

 

But, the last thing I'd do is fight with the DE.  If your motivation is getting the district to help your unit - I wouldn't bother.  Just focus your energy on your unit.

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Districts exist for the administrative convenience of Council and act by delegated authority from Council.

 

The Council's theoretical reason-for-being is to support COs and their units just as a troop exists to support it's patrols.  Training is a critical tool to meet that purpose (for councils and troops), as is providing program for units that need such service.  Often, help is needed to complete the paperwork for registration as it is needlessly complex.  Some units need encouragement to see to recorded advancement. 

 

I was with a unit that existed from 1908 until BSA finally permanently arrived in Orange County, California eighteen years later. (And no, we don't want to be Troop 1.  We're Troop 43.)

 

I was with a unit in Ohio that had one visit from a UC in twenty-five years, never went to Council's camp except for Klondike, and was too busy backpacking to attend Camporee.  That troop did the youth leader training for the district, even when BSA abandoned district-level youth leader training in 2001.  The DEs came and went to quickly that I can only recall three by name of the over forty in those twenty-five years.  That unit celebrates it's 109th birthday thus Summer.

 

So district can be important - or not - to a unit.   A DE is there to support the district volunteers, but many are told by their SE's - sometimes in writing -  that they are de facto in charge and, thus, are responsible for measurable results.  So DEs repeatedly work to metrics and game the system.  Cleveland lost it's first SE over paper membership in 1926 - not the last.

 

Most of the things I read complaints about here are volunteer responsibilities.

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 Don't like what the DE tells you - just ignore him.  The unit belongs to the CO - end of story.  Your status as a volunteer rests with the institutional head (and by extension the COR).  

 

:D  :D  :D  :D  :D

 

Some other ways to ignore him...

 

Whoops...forgot to schedule FOS presentation.

Go across district borders and attend another districts event.

 

Or to really get black-balled

 

Go to another council's  Training, Wood Badge, Camproee, MBU, and/or Summer camp

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Go to another council's  Training, Wood Badge, Camproee, MBU, and/or Summer camp

 

We never camp at our summer camp. Spend one summer here and you will know why. Our guys hate camporee because its the same events won by the same troops who actually practice the events before going. We don't do MBUs. We do some council training but our neighboring council has a great WFRA program (we have none) and other training.

 

I think they don't black ball us because we usually haul in $$$ for FOS. Why give away a cash cow?

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I have asked this question before; So why do we need council? Our council does nothing for the established units except ask for money. I wish we could opt out of a council!

 

We stay becaus we love the program, despite council and the paid folks!

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Perhaps because not all units, especialy those not formed yet, are not "established."

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I have asked this question before; So why do we need council? Our council does nothing for the established units except ask for money. I wish we could opt out of a council!

We stay becaus we love the program, despite council and the paid folks!

Well the standard answer would be support, training, admin coordination (forms, awards, mb classes, scout shop, governance, etc).

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"We're here on the line assembling cars together for the customer.  Why do we need bosses?  They don't lift a finger to help and for the most part simply get in the way."  - Union 101

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"We're here on the line assembling cars together for the customer.  Why do we need bosses?  They don't lift a finger to help and for the most part simply get in the way."  - Union 101

 

Because before the bosses there was no "assembly line" or money to build one?

 

The UAW was demanding forty-hours pay for a thirty-hour week just as Japan was conquering the automotive world.  No shortage of stupid on either side of management/labor.

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The multi-billion dollar, global company I used to work for had a quote from their CEO: "The man on the assembly line does not work for us, we work for them". 

 

It would be nice if BSA picked up on that sentiment. 

 

By the way it is obvious that the CEO has read the book, SERVANT LEADERSHIP by Robert Greenleaf. 

 

We in the BSA trenches are the ones in direct contact with the customer, i.e. scouts.  Without proper support we can't do that.

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I have asked this question before; So why do we need council? Our council does nothing for the established units except ask for money. I wish we could opt out of a council!

 

We stay becaus we love the program, despite council and the paid folks!

 

Our council (1) manages our 3 or 4 council camps, (2) maintains our 3 or 4 council camps, (3) provides training resources and opportunities for both adults and youth, (4) provides a useful interface with the national organization for the Eagle Scout application process, (5) helps manage maintain online advancement records, (6) supports the OA chapter with facilities and resources, (6) performs some useful dispute resolution services from time to time, (7) before 4/1, provided us tour permits that national required for our outings, (8) interfaces with other organizations (such as the Red Cross) to provide us with additional opportunities.

 

That's what pops off the top of my head.

 

But my council very well may not be representative in that we are the largest council in the country, and that gives us resources and opportunities that other smaller councils might not have.

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They have said for decades that they exist to support the volunteer.   With exceptions, they believe, and operate as if, they are totally in charge.  I have seen written statements by SEs of that latter view.

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Our council (1) manages our 3 or 4 council camps, (2) maintains our 3 or 4 council camps, (3) provides training resources and opportunities for both adults and youth, (4) provides a useful interface with the national organization for the Eagle Scout application process, (5) helps manage maintain online advancement records, (6) supports the OA chapter with facilities and resources, (6) performs some useful dispute resolution services from time to time, (7) before 4/1, provided us tour permits that national required for our outings, (8) interfaces with other organizations (such as the Red Cross) to provide us with additional opportunities.

 

That's what pops off the top of my head.

 

But my council very well may not be representative in that we are the largest council in the country, and that gives us resources and opportunities that other smaller councils might not have.

 

I would love to see our council do any of those things.

 

 

Our council is small and appears to be dying a slow painful death.  Member numbers are declining every year.  5,000 cub scouts, 1600 Boy Scouts and 100 Ventures.  We only have 80 troops in our entire council

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They have said for decades that they exist to support the volunteer.   With exceptions, they believe, and operate as if, they are totally in charge.  I have seen written statements by SEs of that latter view.

 

Our newish SE told us it was his way or the highway. 

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Our newish SE told us it was his way or the highway.

 

Does he realize that he needs you to make his goals? What a moron.

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