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belladonna

Troop role for Eagle Court of Honor after EBOR Disp Circumstances

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Well that's why Council showed the SM he was wrong because the GYA allows for non scout actitivies as a reason to explain lack of "activity" in the troop. I hope the council forced the SM and CC to sit through a 16 hour season on the gta and how to read it.

 

Not to my knowledge. And to SSF's point, there was some bad blood between the scout's father--a registered ASM who just wanted them to do things the right way--and the troop. In fact, one reason my youngest son did not go to that troop was the kind of thing that this scout's father was having to do. But I will say that neither the CC nor the SM are in leadership positions in scouting anymore. So maybe there was something done behind the scenes.

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Not to my knowledge. And to SSF's point, there was some bad blood between the scout's father--a registered ASM who just wanted them to do things the right way--and the troop. In fact, one reason my youngest son did not go to that troop was the kind of thing that this scout's father was having to do. But I will say that neither the CC nor the SM are in leadership positions in scouting anymore. So maybe there was something done behind the scenes.

 

Interesting. It is funny to see some councils do one thing and other councils do others.

 

We used to have folks that misread the whole "be active" thing. They missed the litmus test so clearly pointed out in the GTA and simply interpreted active as being at troop events.

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Posted (edited)

Thank you all for your kind words and chiming in.  Even for the not-so-kind words and assumptions, as I know there are many people who feel that the EBOR Under Disputed Circumstances is a "cheat" or work around for parents to get a kid through.

 

A little context...

 

After the "nuclear option" of disputed circumstances, council recommended that we find an outside Eagle Coach from another troop.  The coach we worked with had more than 50 eagles under his belt, and told us there was no reason why my son should have been denied/delayed.  Our troop leadership's primary argument was that because our troop uses 1-year leadership terms and my son had to resign after 9 months because of sports commitments.  Leadership insisted that because he didn't fulfill a full term, he needed to do an additional three months of service (despite the leadership requirement being 6 months). They, too, said that the "be active" admonition was not met, but since it was never defined by our troop (and since our troop records were woefully inaccurate - with my son showing them photos on his phone from camping events they claimed he didn't attend), that was moot.   The troop leadership wanted my son to serve 3 additional months in a leadership role before an EBOR.

 

During our meeting with the troop leadership and council, the council rep said their points were not a legitimate reason to delay the EBOR, but given the bad blood, we still pursued the Disputed Circumstances route with the other coach. 

 

My son did choose to have an EBOR at our church, and we sent invitations to everyone in the troop.  We had about half the boys show, but none from my son's year (the former SM's son and Committee Chair's twins didn't show.)  In fact, our SM didn't even bother to attend, despite our clearing the date with the troop leadership two months in advance.  Disappointing, truly.  But a life lesson that you will never regret taking the high road.

 

In fact, my son purchased a second mentor pin to give one to his coach and one to the scoutmaster, but we returned it.  Oh, and I requested a few letters from senators and presidents, but only the ones my son wanted.  They're nice for the baby book, so sue me.   :)

 

My son has a year left in scouting, and while I think the experience of standing up for your beliefs and what is right (even against people you respect) is important, it has definitely colored his feelings about our specific troop.  He will be camping this summer with another troop at an entirely separate campground.

 

Thanks for your time, I hope this helps clarify some things.

Edited by belladonna

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Belladonna ... Congratulations to your son.  I'm sad for your son that things turned sour with his existing troop.  Sadly, it happens.  But I agree.  If it is as you said, they have no right to deny recognizing the leadership or the activity.  Even if your troop did document standards for attendance, etc, your son's outside involvement and commitments would have been viewed by the council as acceptable reasons and would have fulfilled requirements.  

 

IMHO, it sounds like your troop wanted to promote higher standards and then got stuck enforcing what they promoted.  Trouble is you can promote a higher image, but you can't enforce those as laws.  

 

Congratulations.  It sounds like he truly earned it.  Perhaps this is a good lesson for your son to reflect how he would support those that he has authority over.  

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A similar thing happened in our T-ball league.  A high school senior signed up to coach a youth baseball team as a way to fulfill his high school service hours graduation requirement.  Once he had his service hours completed, he quit with 3 games left in the season.

 

His actions clearly demonstrated that he didn't care about his boys.  He just wanted an easy way to do his service hours.  

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A similar thing happened in our T-ball league.  A high school senior signed up to coach a youth baseball team as a way to fulfill his high school service hours graduation requirement.  Once he had his service hours completed, he quit with 3 games left in the season.

 

His actions clearly demonstrated that he didn't care about his boys.  He just wanted an easy way to do his service hours.  

 

A similar thing happened here, no notice, he just didn't show. Parents questioned his service to the community, but the public school rubber approved.

 

Very un-cool.

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Posted (edited)

Schiff and DavidCo...I get what you're saying, but I resent the implication that my boy "didn't care".  My son remained involved with the troop, and in fact clarified with the advancement chair if 1) it fulfilled his 6-month requirement (and at the time he was told it did, as he'd already completed 9+ months) and 2) if it was ok to have the APL take over, who was happy to do it.  

 

Things come up. Another boy in our troop stepped down from PL because he had an opportunity to travel overseas with his parents for 3 months.  Did that demonstrate that he "didn't care?"  

 

High school is short.  No one says scouting has to be the end-all, be-all of commitments.  If he'd left the troop high and dry, I'd agree.  But we have the paper trail to prove he didn't (and that he in fact went to meetings as often as he could).

Edited by belladonna

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Posted (edited)

I would be the last person to say that scouting is end-all and be-all.  I also understand that unexpected things can happen to cut short a scout fulfilling his obligations in a POR.

 

I just have a difficult time believing that your son's athletic schedule was unforeseen.  It seems more likely that he intended, from the very start, to quit his POR after getting what he wanted.

 

A POR is not a position of convenience.  It is a responsibility.  Your son did not live up to his responsibility. It is sad that the eagle rank often goes to the people who want it the most, rather than those who deserve it the most.

Edited by David CO

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Posted (edited)

We'll have to agree to disagree.  When jr. varsity practices from 3-5 and varsity practices from 6-8 and your troop meets at 7...you have no idea if you'll make varsity as a sophomore.

 

And perhaps that's another reason why council strongly advised that our troop move to 6-month leadership commitments, as most other troops in our area do.  Which also provides additional opportunities for boys to step into leadership roles.  

 

ETA - based on recent replies, I think it's important for me to say that my posts were never intended to justify or demonstrate merit for the Disputed Circumstances option or my son's particular challenges.  Because he is my son, and I believe he earned his Eagle despite tremendous obstacles, I will bow out now.  I'm taking these responses far too personally.  Thank you!

Edited by belladonna

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A scout with activities other than scouts and a rule that he has to serve 12 months when the requirements state 6 is just plain wrong.  It is a classic example of a troop adding to the requirements.  There's just no valid reason for it other than adults making stupid rules.  If a scout is required to serve 6 months and does 9 with time off for a season of sports, it still counts.  And the extra 3 months shows he does care.

 

Had my committee made such a rule for my troop, I would go to bat for the scout and personally help him through the appeal process and if that irked the committee, he and I would both be looking for a new troop.

 

I often wonder whether or not some of the scouters out there can read plain English.  Seriously, the BSA handbook isn't written in Hieroglyphics or some sort of Enigma code.

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Congrats to your son!

 

I thought I had seen everything on this forum, but a ding for congratulating an Eagle Scout for attaining the rank?  Kinda makes one wonder.....

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Hello - 

 

My son recently achieved his Eagle Rank after a dustup in his troop resulting in us pursuing an EBOR under Disputed Circumstances. The process worked exactly as it should - council got involved and he achieved his rank.  

 

The problem we're facing is planning his Court of Honor.  The other 3 scouts in the troop opted for a COH during the troop's regular courts of honor, not a separate thing.  My son wants to have a larger event with friends, family, etc.  

 

Obviously, there's bad feelings with leadership, us and my son.  No letters have been requested for him, nobody picked up his credentials, etc.  

 

Has anyone had experiences with planning a COH like this?  We still want the troop involved and everyone from the troop will be invited. 

Well, in our troop, the Scouts' parents request the letters, and the family plans the ECOH.  Plan your own, invite the Troop and friends and family, and just hope for the best.  We've had all sorts of ECOHs, ranging from ones that occur at a Scout's home church (one was a member of a youth oriented church that met in an old movie theater), to part of the regular  COH, to a separate COH with family, friends and local dignitaries, an OA-based ceremony, and a recent one that occurred at a beach pavilion, followed by the youth sailing on the local Sea Scout Ship's boats.  

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Belladona, congratulations again to your son. His desire to stay the course and not throw in the towel on scouting even in the face of unjust treatment is commendable. His achievement should be celebrated, not distorted as something that was stolen or cheated.

 

 

There are too many scoutmasters and scouters who are more concerned with "being right" than in doing what's right. Your son's scoutmaster never had your son's best interests at heart.

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I think it's important for me to say that my posts were never intended to justify or demonstrate merit for the Disputed Circumstances option or my son's particular challenges.  Because he is my son, and I believe he earned his Eagle despite tremendous obstacles, I will bow out now.  I'm taking these responses far too personally.  Thank you!

 

 

Please don't judge this group by @@David CO's response.  He always sides with the adult leaders because they were appointed by the Chartered Organization.  There are those of us who understand that BSA Advancement is guided by the rules and that a Scoutmaster or Committee cannot change or add requirements.  It is the BSA's program, not the Adults, not the CO's.  The adult leaders are there to implement the program and help the boys.  

 

Best of luck to you Eagle.  Congratulate him for me.

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