What Do Your ASMs Do?

[ManyIrons 10]

According to the Troop Committee Guidebook: "Each assistant Scoutmaster is assigned specific program duties and reports to the Scoutmaster".

 

Aside from ASM for the New Scout and Venture patrols, what program areas has your troop assigned to the ASMs?

[purcelce 11]

Back a few months ago we had quite a few ASMs...two have PCSed... We had one ASM that was like an ASPL. Other ASMs were assigned to each patrol, and one as High Adventure coordinator.

 

 

[Bob White 20]

We now have 6 assistants. (52 Scouts)

Two oversee the two New Scout Patrols

Two oversee the 2 Regular Patrols program,

One (and the SM from time to time) oversee the Venture Patrols

One is the medical resource (RN)

One floats for now (he just joined last week)

[packsaddle 753]

I'm an ASM and there are 4 others. As the name suggests we assist the SM by offering ideas and taking the lead when he can't. Sort of a tag-team approach but it works. But the SM is the big guy and we accept orders once the decision is made. We've had no problems among the adult leaders yet (at least in my memory). The troop is small so we rarely need more than two or three adults on any particular outing or activity.

[matuawarrior 10]

We have . . .

 

1 working with our Two NSP's(we started last month), he also works as liason with our Webelos Scouts in the Pack;

 

1 working with the Venture Patrol and liason to the Venturing Crew;

 

1 working as our Unit Medic takes care of all the medical forms, First Aid and Emergency Preparedness areas;

 

1 working with the regular patrol and as a liason to the Charter's Ship; and

 

1 working similar to an executive officer, he works with the other ASM's and takes over when I'm not present.

 

Matua

 

 

[Proud Eagle 13]

In my unit ASMs don't currently seem to have any real assigned function, other than just helping out when and how they are able. They are sometimes assigned tasks related to specific activities, such as coordinating some part of the planning for an upcoming trip, but very rarely is there any permanent duty assigned.

 

I personally think this is not a good thing. Unfortunately, those that we have as ASMs (that includes me) are not always available for every meeting and every campout (in fact I think my attendence is about par for the coarse for ASMs, and that isn't too good since I go to school 2 hours from home). OK, perhaps I should have said the ASMs are only occasionally available for anything. Therefore it would be difficult to delegate some duty to an ASM. On the flip side, it is possible that if each ASM had something they knew they were responsible for, it is more likely they would be able to find time to show up.

 

I would strongly suggest several things, based on past observations, and present theorising:

There should be an ASM to work with each of the major troop leaders (ASPLs, QM, etc), since you never can tell when adult guidance may be needed in the field. These probably don't need to be full time assignements, but more like special duties. I would also suggest having an ASM who is purely the back up for the SM. This person should be there in case the MACK truck theory is ever put into practice (for those unfamiliar with that, the idea is that even if the most critical individual is hit by a truck tommorrow, the show still gows on without missing a beat). This will help solve many problems that occur when the SM has to step down on short notice. (I should know, I was the SPL at the time immediately after our old SM stepped down, and we didn't have an ASM ready to fill in until a permanent replacement could be selected. Instead we just had to make do without an SM for about 6 months.)

 

I personally am not really a big fan of the idea of each patrol having its own ASM. That would make it too easy for the patrol to function like a cub den with the ASM as its den leader. On the other hand, I do see the need for specialised ASM support for the various programs for new, experienced, and older Scouts within the troop, so this could sometimes be necessary.

[Eagle Foot 10]

As the new SM of an older troop that was spinning out of control, the ASM's seem to do what they want too.

They do not really openly cause conflict but behind the seens they are together...making contact with "Their Boys" to do things. They keep the SM pretty much in the dark. I'm watching this situation closly trying to decide how to deal with it.

For example: We are going on our spring camporee this weekend. None could come except one who is not with them. Come to find out they are taking COPE training, I think this is good...but....they sure diden't let their SM know. Not that they are required too, just the acceptable thing to do. Again it is so they can take "Their Boys". This is the problem the other SM had...this is why he left.....Ummmmmmm there is always something!!!!

 

Any body got any ideas about dealing with those who have "Their Boys"?????

 

These ASM's are for their group and are not working for the good of the troop. "Their group" will show up. "They" can make it when other members of the troop have been left out. They have "Their Group" (Before I came)

 

Looking for some sugestions

 

Eagle Foot

[mk9750 11]

Our Troop has two ASMs for each Patrol. Their sole ongoing duty is to make sure that if the Patrol plans an outing, and need adults there, at least one of them goes. He also recruits the second adult if needed.

 

Occasionally, they step in and help the SPL train the Patrol Leader, and, if an issue gets to the point that a the Patrol Leader and the SPL don't feel they can handle it without adult intervention, they step in. This was how the situation evolved in the thread "A patrol of difficult Scouts".

 

We have two ASMs "at large", who have specific skills that help us do some of the outings that we do - Rapelling and kayaking. These are activities that require direct adult participation, but these ASMs don't want to have week to week responsiblity. Because we have a total of nine ASM for a Troop of @ 30 right now, we can afford to let them work this way.

 

Mark

[acco40 95]

I have both SA and SM experience. Nothing is worse than being a SA with no task. As SM, I try to give the SAs specific tasks. For instance, on our outing later today, I will be conducting JLT for about 10 of our older Scouts and I assigned two of our SAs to provide activities to our NSP. Their guidelines were to keep the NSP and themselves away from the JLT course (no interruptions please) from 10 AM to 5 PM on Saturday. I gave them suggestions for activities for the NSP but what they end up doing is their call.

 

Now, they come to me for advice, some say they can't make the outing, etc. I'm all smiles but insist they need to make it happen! If they will not be present, plan the activities and go through it with another SA or parent who will be attending. My main focus is to give them a clearly understood task, the resources to do the task and the freedom to do the task as they see fit (just like how I train the boys!).

 

Although none of the BSA literature states it in a job description for a SM, one of my duties is to train capable SAs who could become SMs if they wish.

[Shell in WA- USA 10]

We truely have a boy led troop, so the adult are there to support the boys only. We don't step in as much as a post before this. The ASM's we have however, are assigned to each patrol but not as a "den Leader." They are only as a resource for the patrol leader to use if needed. They also work witht he assigned Troop guide for the patrol and help them out.

 

We also have a couple ASMs assigned for New Scouts. They run special "sessions" prior to the meeting to help newly joined scouts earn their tenderfoot before attending summer camp.

 

We also have one ASM assigned as Quartermaster and to closely work with the troop Quartermaster.

 

Yet another is assigned as Outdoor Coordinator, he makes sure that tour permits, parent support, transportation, etc is ready to go for the boys choosen outings.

 

Some of our ASM's (And other parents of the troop for that matter) have special interests they like to share with the troop (boating, fishing, high adventure hikes, climbs, railroading, model building, etc.) The SM gives the "talent" list to the SPL. And when he wishes to work it into the program, the SPL will sometimes work in a demo or talk about the subject and asking the adult to share their knowledge.

 

Of course, I as advancement chair, also grab the list and get people signed on a MBC's as well!

[KoreaScouter 13]

I just got my 7th ASM volunteer yesterday, so I'll have one for each patrol, plus an extra.

 

I did assign ASMs with function-based program responsibilities, but I found the requirements for them to do these things ebbed and flowed depending on whether or not that particular function needed their attention. So, we're in the process of lining up an ASM with each of our patrols. I know the concern about them being glorified den leaders. My reply would be, if you're aware that's a possibility, watch out for it and don't let it happen -- it's not an independent variable. I like ASMs designated for patrols for a variety of reasons, patrol meeting and activity oversight being just one.

 

Shell, I don't mean to nitpick, but from your last post, it appears your ASMs are doing largely committee or MB counselor tasks. Shouldn't the committee Equipment Coordinator be working with the Troop Quartermaster, rather than an ASM? Likewise for the Events Coordinator -- that's a committee job, too. My ASMs would give me the skunk-eye if I asked them to take that stuff on -- if they wanted to do committee stuff, they would be committee members. Straighten me out if I'm missing something.

 

KS

[Shell in WA- USA 10]

Just checkin to see if you were paying attention, korean scouter!

 

Actually, Korean Scouter you're right. after I hit send I realized how my list had grown. Our Outdoors Chair and Equipment Chair are truely committee members.

[ManyIrons 10]

Thanks for the input folks. My troop is having a meeting for all of our registered adults to discuss troop operations and this will be one of the items on the agenda. Ill use your feedback to help frame some recommendations.

 

Heres my info:

 

On paper weve now got 8 ASMs.

 

1 is already our ASM- Venture Patrol, Life-to-Eagle counselor, and High Adventure coordinator.

1 will become our ASM- NSP.

1 Shows up very infrequently due to work schedule.

1 Shows up about half the time, but usually just "visits" with the other parents.

1 Shows up regularly and claims he wants something to do, but exercises no initiative. It's quite apparent that hes really only there to wet nurse his kid. The kid actually doesnt need it, but plays the guy like a fiddle.

2 are recently graduated Eagles. 1 shows up infrequently and the other attends regularly but waits to be given something to do.

1 is writing this post.

 

We obviously need some work.

 

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Side note to Eagle Foot. Yes they are required to tell the SM. Please re-read the last 5 words of the quote in my initial post: and reports to the Scoutmaster thats pretty explicit. The guidebook also states that the SM is the adult leader responsible for the image and program of the troop. These folks have already driven off one SM and their actions show that they have no respect for you. In my opinion youve only got two options.

 

1. Put your foot down, engage the CC and COR (although one wonders where they were when the last SM quit) and get control of your program.

 

2. Find a new troop and put your talents to work in an organization that believes in and follows the methods of Scouting.

 

The worst thing you can do is to simply tolerate their behavior and allow things to continue as they are. Hope this doesnt sound too harsh, but I hate to see people taken advantage of. Best of luck to you. Please let us know how you fare.

 

YIS