Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Given the apparently widespread nature of this, there should be some official notification from the National Council and/or the individual Councils.

 

That's right, that's what there should be.  Instead we have the national director of health and safety (or whatever his exact title is) telling us "Guess we have to wait and see what happens on the 1st" and then linking to an article that was an April Fool's joke.  This isn't right.

 

If people at National want to have a little fun in their work and send fake memos around the office (if that is what this was), I don't have a problem with that.  But don't send the fake memo out to the councils so the councils can then post it on their web sites, and/or send it out to their volunteers, as a real thing.  And if you're the guy who wrote the memo, and you find out it IS being posted as a real thing, take some action so that us poor volunteering souls out in the field aren't getting conflicting information about what we have to do in connection with our April camping trip, and then when we ask about it, are told by the guy who wrote the fake memo "wait and see what happens."

 

Do I seem annoyed about this?   :)

Edited by NJCubScouter
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe it's not a fake memo. Maybe it leaked and National is not authorized to make an official statement until April 1st. 

 

This is just a guess.

 

How about we wait to pass judgement until April 3rd? If we have an activity planned over the next week just do as we have always done (which is either file a TAP or don't because some people never do anyway) and save the consternation until then?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BSA National needs to make an official announcement one way or another and fast. I am pissed. Either it is an incompetent roll out of a major change of policy with a bad date or a thoughtless and frustrating April Fools joke. I think this should cost someone's job. 

 

You know those of us actually out in the field with boys are really, really busy to have to waste time on this. My CC emailed all us Scouters on this; they are treating this as actionable intelligence.

 

This is really, really stupid. If it turns out is this is just a April Fools Joke with a wink from the mighty Richard B then he knows where he can stuff the latest GSS. From now on I will just ignore everything he says and let our 10-1/2 year olds  stand on a 8' ladder and juggle chain saws while balancing on a 4 wheeled wagons.

 

I don't need 'Fake News' from BSA.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe it's not a fake memo. Maybe it leaked and National is not authorized to make an official statement until April 1st. 

 

Why wouldn't the national organization that runs Scouting be authorized to make a statement of any kind?

 

I've counted over ten councils that have posted this information, so there's a few thousand people who are going to see it and think it is real. What happens if they are having an event on 4/1 and don't fill out a tour plan?

 

I can see punking folks on things like knife length, new uniforms with built in mosquito netting or other things that border on the absurd-yet-plausible. However, this is a real thing and the supporting documentation has links to a slew of official documents, so it smacks less of a joke and more of being true.

 

I will say this, if it *is* a joke it is a poor one. It's not even funny. The humor is derived when something absurd is believed to be true just because it is on the very fringe of reality. Sun-setting the tour plan process and system is a very real, safety-related topic. It would no more funny than if BSA said we didn't need RSOs or NRA-trained instructors on fire arms ranges. Would folks believe it? Sure! Is it funny? Not even remotely.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why wouldn't the national organization that runs Scouting be authorized to make a statement of any kind?

 

Because, again pure speculation, a replacement plan is not completed. Because lawyers said don't make an announcement until our new insurance policy takes effect on April 1st. Because business doesn't stop simply because the calendar says it's a day to play jokes on people.

 

It's all guesswork. Until the date comes, I'd say it's business as usual. As it stands, there is no "penalty" for failing to file a TAP. 

 

It's not a safety issue. Did you behave in a safe manner before this memo? Will you continue to behave in a safe manner after the memo? So where's the issue?

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about we wait to pass judgement until April 3rd? If we have an activity planned over the next week just do as we have always done (which is either file a TAP or don't because some people never do anyway) and save the consternation until then?

 

Too late, at least in my case.   :)

 

Seriously though, I don't think the issue is March 10 (or whenever) vs. April 1 vs. April 3 because if National were going to make a major paperwork change for local units like this, there should probably be at least three months notice.  Really six months.  But at least three months.

 

As for your suggestion that people keep doing what they have been doing, I agree with that.  They should comply with what is on the official National web site, which says the document is to be submitted to council. 

 

As for "passing judgment", based on the available evidence, I think it's completely reasonable to be annoyed right now.   :)

Edited by NJCubScouter
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because, again pure speculation, a replacement plan is not completed. Because lawyers said don't make an announcement until our new insurance policy takes effect on April 1st. Because business doesn't stop simply because the calendar says it's a day to play jokes on people.

 

In your scenario, assuming this is not a joke, it makes BSA look even more incompetent that if it was a joke. No one in their right mind makes an announcement of any kind unless the replacement activity is ready to go. Insurance plans are contracted long before announcements are made, so if someone at BSA jumped the gun, even more reason to make a statement. "Opps, sorry, we said something too early. Keep doing what you are doing and we will tell you about a new program later." Done!

 

So either 1) this is a bad joke, 2) this is not a joke and they are taking away tour plans, 3) this is a mistake and was announced too early. In ANY of these instances the communications has been incomplete, unclear and poor. One would think a national organization would want to fix such a perception...and fast.

 

It's all guesswork. Until the date comes, I'd say it's business as usual. As it stands, there is no "penalty" for failing to file a TAP.

 I am not sure this is true. If I am taking a group out of council in to the back country on 4/1 and don't file a tour plan, what are the consequences?

 

It's not a safety issue. Did you behave in a safe manner before this memo? Will you continue to behave in a safe manner after the memo? So where's the issue?

 

It is absolutely a safety issue. Not for my unit because we over prepare. However, those units who have no clue that they need certain trained folks on certain types of outings this *may* be a huge issue for them. See my scenario above. What happens if they used to make sure drivers had the state minimum for insurance coverage but now, because of this memo, they just take any drivers are don't check? That's a safety issue...and a real one.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BTW as a person whose birthday is April 1st I am very familiar with and tolerant of April's Fools Jokes (when I was born the doctor told my Mom 'congratulations you have twins' and she promptly fainted). I have always 'played along' because well "can you come into the break room" could mean a surprise party. It has also meant a bucket of confetti on my head as well as a group lay-off. So you never know. I do my best to be a good sport. 

 

I am suspecting this was a badly planned April Fools Joke and folks are backing off to the backlash. Maybe it is not even BSA? It is so believable because National never misses an opportunity to shoot itself in the foot, calmly reload, and shoot the other.

 

Oh well, I have a hike to load up for.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not having insurance is not a safety issue. It's a regulation issue. Having bald tires is a safety issue. I have filled out many a TAP and nowhere does it ask if the vehicles have had a safety inspection. 

 

The consequences of taking scouts on an outing without a TAP? I don't know, let's ask all of the people who have admitted on this thread that they never fill one out. Or what about the FAQ where it says that you are still covered by BSA insurance even if you fail to file a TAP?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not having insurance is not a safety issue. It's a regulation issue. Having bald tires is a safety issue. I have filled out many a TAP and nowhere does it ask if the vehicles have had a safety inspection. 

 

The consequences of taking scouts on an outing without a TAP? I don't know, let's ask all of the people who have admitted on this thread that they never fill one out. Or what about the FAQ where it says that you are still covered by BSA insurance even if you fail to file a TAP?

 

Sorry, but not having insurance *is* a safety issue. Anyone who goes on a trip KNOWING they have no insurance coverage is putting the health and safety of their Scouts and adults at risk. If there is an accident and no insurance coverage, the health care one receives is governed by the ability to pay. I have seen folks denied care that would have helped them because of no insurance. That is very much a safety issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*** UPDATE ***

 

Our district has a forum and someone posted this issue there. The DE didn't know so they checked with national. According to the DE tour plans *are* going away....at least according to who she spoke with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*** UPDATE ***

 

Our district has a forum and someone posted this issue there. The DE didn't know so they checked with national. According to the DE tour plans *are* going away....at least according to who she spoke with.

Well, there goes safety. It's going to be chaos, Jerry, CHAOS! ;)

 

Thanks for following up with the people in charge. :)

Edited by krikkitbot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BTW as a person whose birthday is April 1st I am very familiar with and tolerant of April's Fools Jokes (when I was born the doctor told my Mom 'congratulations you have twins' and she promptly fainted). 

 

I just have one question, when your mother told you that story, was it on your birthday?  :)

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just have one question, when your mother told you that story, was it on your birthday?   :)

 

Yes but my Dad verified. Like many Mom she reminisced on my birthday. That was story#3. Story #2 was her telling Dad that she WAS calm and take her to the hospital as she took off her socks and calmly flushed them down the toilet. Story #1 was how when my delivery time was still a few hours away the doctor had her rolled out to the hallway to wait and offered he a cigarette to calm her nerves. So Mom and the Doctor had some last minute drags inside the Hospital. It was a different era.

 

As to the issue at hand my DE is trying to run it down; they seem confused with National on this. I will endevour to avoid the spicy language I would like to express.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just received an email from my council (Northeast Iowa) indicating the same information above, but with the same link to the FAQ's that doesn't address the termination. 

Edited by The Blancmange

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×