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Camping 9B - Plan and carry out an overnight snow camping experience.

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I either case, it's about overcoming challenges.   Ambiguities should be resolved in favor of the Scout.  Not his fault the language is not crystal clear or otherwise defined.  

 

30's and raining is pretty challenging.

I might even argue that 30's and raining is more challenging than camping in several feet of powder.  That can be brutal!

 

.....The point is not an extreme weather experience. The point is to add variety to one's camping experience. .....

Is that the point?

 

It's all relative. The goal is to try something different.

Is that the goal?

 

These things are true enough I suppose, in the spirit of the overlying requirement

but

"A snow camping experience" is the question.... and I can think of all sorts of extreme weather, different, and situations with lots of variety that are absolutely NOT snow experience in any way.....

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I might even argue that 30's and raining is more challenging than camping in several feet of powder.  That can be brutal!

 

Is that the point?

 

Is that the goal?

 

These things are true enough I suppose, in the spirit of the overlying requirement

but

"A snow camping experience" is the question.... and I can think of all sorts of extreme weather, different, and situations with lots of variety that are absolutely NOT snow experience in any way.....

I assure you, my great nephews and nieces are having all manner of camping fun down in central FL. But, they are specifically asking for snow. To my knowledge they are doing so without reference to Camping Requirement 9B. They will be disappointed (but hopefully gracious) if we must provide them with substitutions.

 

They are not asking because it is some extreme test. They are asking because they want to see and feel something inherently beautiful -- yet heretofore beyond their experience.

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"A snow camping experience" is the question.... and I can think of all sorts of extreme weather, different, and situations with lots of variety that are absolutely NOT snow experience in any way.....

My point was that if there's enough snow to go snow shoeing then there's enough snow to call it snow camping and too much for most scouts to do anything else on that list. So I'd say their definition of snow camping is that there's enough to need snow shoes when you go for a hike.

 

I don't think they're interested in extreme weather as they just want scouts to try something other than what they're used to. They picked water, snow, biking, and mountains. Camp and enjoy one of those. That's the choice.

 

This is a requirement where the scouts have to do something as opposed to describe, explain, or discuss. I like it.

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I am not sure what "different" means in post #6.  The Boy Scouts of America requirement says:

 

9. Show experience in camping by doing the following:

 

a. Camp a total of at least 20 nights at designated Scouting activities or events. One long-term camping experience of up to six consecutive nights may be applied toward this requirement. Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched. If the camp provides a tent that has already been pitched, you need not pitch your own tent.

 

b. On any of these camping experiences, you must do TWO of the following, only with proper preparation and under qualified supervision.

(1) Hike up a mountain where, at some point, you are at least 1,000 feet higher in elevation from where you started.

(2) Backpack, snowshoe, or cross-country ski for at least 4 miles.

(3) Take a bike trip of at least 15 miles or at least four hours. 

(4) Take a nonmotorized trip on the water of at least four hours or 5 miles.

(5) Plan and carry out an overnight snow camping experience.

(6) Rappel down a rappel route of 30 feet or more.

I tried to delete my post right after posting it and couldn't. I misread the requirements and noticed my error as I hit post. I tried to edit and remove it but it seems like it still posted. 

 

Mea Culpa

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Since there is no official definition of "snow camping experience," any reasonable definition should be accepted.

 

How about a camping experience in the snow or during which it snows?

 

If all they want is "different," how about low humidity (for the Floridians) or high humidity (for the Arizonans) or desert (for anyone from the areas with nothing like a desert).  I'd suggest "island," but we'ed get a debate about what an "island" is.   :D

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Maybe I have missed something in this thread, but there seems to be a lot of agonizing about how to satisfy an OPTIONAL requirement.  The requirement gives six options and you have to do two.  Only one requires snow.  So if you have no snow, and aren't traveling to where they do, you do two of the other five.  

 

There are practical issues to some of the others too.  For example, I would have to get out a topographical map of northwestern New Jersey to determine whether there is a practical way to gain 1,000 feet in elevation while hiking in this state, even on the AT.  Our "High Point" (which is on the AT) is 1,803 feet above sea level and obviously the surrounding area is elevated as well.  Of course, it doesn't say you have to do it all in one day, but it would still be interesting.  And you can always go to Pa. or NY.  And I guess there are other states where this would be even more difficult, if not impossible.  On the other hand, we do have snow, but there's no guarantee that there will be enough of it on the ground in a given weekend to call it a "snow camping experience."

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Again, are we making it too hard?  Snow is snow.  A weekend campout is a weekend campout (except in Journey to Excellence where it may be a weekend in a building watching videos or playing e-games).

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well, whatever it is.....

if my scouts wanted to do a snow camping experience

and it was an experience in deep snow, sleeping in snow caves or igloos (as long as it's not a 'barely igloo' made form not quite enough snow so that everything is a muddy mess....)

then count me in.... I would love to get that experience myself!

 

I lived in the North as a kid, and have spent some quality time as an adult living a few months in the dead of winter...

and I have gone on several ski trip vacations

So I understand snow, snow forts, sledding, and so on.  Even made a snow cave once as a kid into a drift on the side of the hill in my backyard

but it wasn't a proper snow cave with low entrance, sleeping shelves, etc.... and I didn't sleep in it.

I would love to check that one off!

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I would think that it is up to the discretion of the MB Counselor as long as he/she is not adding anything to the requirements. 

 

Do the requirements have a minimum amount of snow listed?

Do the requirements have a maximum temperature, humidity, etc.?

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I would think that it is up to the discretion of the MB Counselor as long as he/she is not adding anything to the requirements. 

 

Do the requirements have a minimum amount of snow listed?

Do the requirements have a maximum temperature, humidity, etc.?

No specifications of the sort, although admittedly I have not cracked open the pamphlet in ages to see what might be described.

If you are getting ready for camping in snow, you are necessarily preparing for a wide envelope.

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What the various options listed in the MB pamphlet seem to indicate is some sort of camping experience beyond the standard plop camping most troops seem to find acceptable.

 

I have to admit that when I travel hard and fast over long distances, my Class-B camper and a I-highway rest area are often the accommodations that apply.  I used to have a small camper trailer, and a pop-up, for some trips that had a camping destination.  The year the Mrs. and I went to Yellowstone, the campground was a great place for the buffalo to spend the night as well and if one needed to get up to head for the KYBO in the middle of the night, they had to be careful not to disturb them.  A tent might not have been practical at that point. 

 

I have done the plop routine when the patrols are young (no scout trailer though) and I have stripped down to the bare essentials with backpacking and canoeing.  But the real test is kayak camping.  That's like a combo of backpacking and canoeing.  I do have a 17' canoe that can handle 750# where most canoes max out at 350#.  A kayak, on the other hand will barely fit enough gear to meet backpacking standards.  Now that is challenging camping at it's best.  The Mrs. and I are planning a week+ trip this summer doing the kayak camping routine.

 

Snow camping?  Just another challenge with the requirements of temperamental temperatures dipping below freezing rather than trying to limit one's weight of a backpack experience or load limits and balance of a canoe or bicycle trek,

 

What I think the optional requirements are meant to portray is the variety of different challenges that can happen in the world of camping besides going out in the woods, opening up the back of the trailer and plopping down for the weekend at a State Park..

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If this was a mandatory item...

 

Well, this would be the end of Boy Scouting in a chunk of the South.

 

Snow was so rare in my Southern California troop we gave a special award for camping in it.

Edited by John-in-KC

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Gee, when I was in Southern California (San Diego County) my church youth group went up in the mountains and had a great time sledding.  It may be warm on the coast, but I found snow there.  Flagstaff AZ is noted for it's snowfalls as well.  somehow I get the feeling that some of the southern boys have less distance to find snow than we do to find no-snow.  :)

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Recollections change with time.

 

Went up to the San Bernardino Mountains for snow, but few Scouts (or adults) had the right boots to cold/wet.

 

Flagstaff was not a practical distance - 462 miles from the church.  Leave at 7PM and arrive at campsite (at 7050 ft elev.) at 2:30 AM, if no one crashed.

 

Drove through 'da Flag once when there was 8' of snow on the ground.  Still didn't have the right boots.  :blink:

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