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RememberSchiff

Scouting ties in the Trump Administration

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The Boy Scout Memorial was sculpted by an American artist. 

 

I am a conservative, but I am not a prude. I don't mind the neoclassical styled nude/semi-nude statues.

 

In neoclassical style, nude figures are usually not supposed to be seen to represent actual people.  They are meant to personify heroic or virtuous ideals.

 

The semi-nude figures do not represent the scout's parents, or any other adults. They represent the values of the scout.

 

I don't think we need to dummy down our art.

 

I once chaperoned a group of fifth grade students to an art museum showcasing an exhibit of neoclassical art. Once it was explained to them, the kids got it, and they were able to identify the ideals personified by each of the nude figures.

 

Kids can be a lot smarter than we give them credit for. I support art education.

 

Yes an American artist would be a requirement as there is a recent trend to offshore statues, e.g., the recent Martin Luther King statue.

 

The proportion of the figures is wrong. The work appears to have been started for a different project with a scout added to move the piece out of the shop.

 

The symbolism that you mentioned , IMO could have been done more effectively and accurately (in the context of scouting) with contemporary American figures.

 

Nudity doesn't bother me, but why in a Scouting statue? Poor choice.

 

IMO, it is just poor re-purposed production art - an eyesore and an embarrassment for us, all the more apparent in a city with the Lincoln Memorial, Korean War Veterans, Vietnam Veterans Memorial,... well considered in symbolism, history, and form by talented artists. On our one trip to Washington, we skipped it.

 

But that's just my opinion.

 

Do you think a Cabinet member might become Honorary President of the BSA?

Do you think this Administration will have a greater interest in Scouting?

 

I might not agree with their politics, but I think there will be a genuine interest in Scouting maybe even a Cabinet fight as to who attends Jambo as opposed to phoning it in (sorry AT&T). :)

Edited by RememberSchiff

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No, I don't think a cabinet member might become the Honorary President of BSA.  

 

If we were to disrupt the tradition of having the POTUS be the HP of BSA, the tradition would probably be discontinued forever, and BSA would not have an Honorary President.

 

It would be too politically divisive for BSA to pick and choose.  

 

Like most people, the Trump family's interest level in scouting may largely depend on whether or not they have a child in the program.  I don't know if Barron Trump has any interest in scouting.

 

If we really wanted scouting to be more boy lead, we would have an Honorary Chief Senior Patrol Leader of BSA.

 

I'm sure Teddy Roosevelt's sons would have been interested in scouting, had it existed during TR's term.  But then again, we would have had to allow bullying.

Edited by David CO

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Honorary Chief Senior Patrol Leader of BSA - someone in OA?

 

Teddy Roosevelt I dunno. He considered Seton, a "nature faker" and that controversy then has similarities to Trump and global warming today.

 

I found Gerald Ford's, Scouting Years scanned and available free

http://www.lincoln-highway-museum.org/grf/10-book/10-fsh-200.pdf

His son Jack was one of the founders of Outside magazine.

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Ernest Thomson Seton was a nature faker, as were other animal fiction writers of the time, like Rudyard Kipling and Edgar Rice Burroughs. Seton also presented a highly fictionalized picture of American Indians.

 

It is difficult for a naturalist to be taken seriously in his field when he also publishes animal fiction.  Likewise, it is hard for a scientist to be taken seriously if he also writes science fiction, or an historian to be taken seriously if he also writes historical fiction.

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Honorary Chief Senior Patrol Leader of BSA - someone in OA? ...

Already in place ... shared between the

  1. OA National Chief and
  2. President of the National Venturing Youth Cabinet.

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Replacing the adult Honorary President position with a Honorary Chief Senior Patrol Leader of BSA is sounding more and more desirable.

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Already in place ... shared between the

  1. OA National Chief and
  2. President of the National Venturing Youth Cabinet.

 

 

And for those who are neither eligible for, or in, the OA or Venturing?

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David:  Idealized nude neoclassical statuary is one thing.  But when you put a clothed figure in there, it seems kind of incongruous.  At last in that particular statue, in my opinion, it's no longer the idealized human form representing virtuous and heroic ideals.  Now it's a statue of some people wearing clothes and other people not wearing clothes.  The fact that one of them is a child (or adolescent) makes it... well, kind of creepy.  In my opinion.

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Yes an American artist would be a requirement as there is a recent trend to offshore statues, e.g., the recent Martin Luther King statue.

 

The proportion of the figures is wrong. The work appears to have been started for a different project with a scout added to move the piece out of the shop.

 

The symbolism that you mentioned , IMO could have been done more effectively and accurately (in the context of scouting) with contemporary American figures.

 

Nudity doesn't bother me, but why in a Scouting statue? Poor choice.

 

IMO, it is just poor re-purposed production art - an eyesore and an embarrassment for us, all the more apparent in a city with the Lincoln Memorial, Korean War Veterans, Vietnam Veterans Memorial,... well considered in symbolism, history, and form by talented artists. On our one trip to Washington, we skipped it.

 

But that's just my opinion.

 

Do you think a Cabinet member might become Honorary President of the BSA?

Do you think this Administration will have a greater interest in Scouting?

 

I might not agree with their politics, but I think there will be a genuine interest in Scouting maybe even a Cabinet fight as to who attends Jambo as opposed to phoning it in (sorry AT&T). :)

 

The proportions of the figures are not wrong.  It is intentional. By making the 2 figures larger than life, the artist is further conveying the message that they are meant to be seen as allegorical figures. 

 

Why in a scouting statue?  Why not?

 

I think they chose the neoclassical style because it was intended to be displayed in the Ellipse, where there are several other monuments built in this style.  

 

I believe the artwork is actually owned by the Smithsonian.  If the park service was to have it removed, I think it would have to be returned to them.

Edited by David CO

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The proportions of the figures are not wrong.  It is intentional. By making the 2 figures larger than life, the artist is further conveying the message that they are meant to be seen as allegorical figures. 

 

Why in a scouting statue?  Why not?

 

I think they chose the neoclassical style because it was intended to be displayed in the Ellipse, where there are several other monuments built in this style.  

 

I believe the artwork is actually owned by the Smithsonian.  If the park service was to have it removed, I think it would have to be returned to them.

I had an art teacher who told me "Bad art needs explanation, good art does not." It is very hard to explain this bad art. IMO, NJCubScouter did it best - creepy.

 

Regarding the nudity and its inappropriateness in a scouting statue, can you find any official scouting literature or website which pictures this Boy Scout Commemorative Tribute Memorial? Maybe the Scout Handbook? Sculpture MB? Art MB? Citizenship in Nation MB? Guide to Safe Scouting?

 

Scouts paid for this and gave it to US government so the government could sell it as surplus junk.  :) 

https://www.nps.gov/whho/learn/historyculture/boy-scout-memorial.htm

 

Bad art aside, I am more interested in thoughts about how the Trump Administration will interact with Scouting.

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Actually, much of Seton's work, especially that on wolves of Canada, is still a good resource today.  His detailed art work on the wolves is some of the most accurate there is and was accomplished by serious field studies.

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And for those who are neither eligible for, or in, the OA or Venturing?

They are still represented on a national level by these individuals and their respective cabinets.

 

I will also add that, although these (and the various council, area, and regional positions of responsibility) are roles that most of our seasoned scouts should aspire to, they are a bit of a side-show to the pinnacle scouting experience: hiking and camping independently with your mates. Do that first, and other honors and positions of support/promotion will begin to have meaning.

Edited by qwazse

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As part of Good Turn for America, there was this 2008 "legal" agreement between the BSA and National Park Service. I cannot recall that it had any program impact in my council. As I recall the problem with the Resource Stewardship Scout Ranger program was park admission/membership. It was just less hassle and cheaper to camp at a state park or scout camp. Maybe Secretary of Interior Ryan Zinke could revisit.

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/membership/pdf/MOUNPSSigned.pdf

https://www.nps.gov/tapr/learn/kidsyouth/upload/Resource-Stewardship-Scout-Ranger-Brochure.pdf

Edited by RememberSchiff

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Vice President-elect Mike Pence spoke at the 21st annual Governor's Luncheon for Scouting to say farewell as Indiana Governor.

 

He said he had been a Cub Scout but that Scouting impacted him much more as a father.

"To see the confidence in my son Michael grew as he wore that uniform when he went out and went out with his troop. And I saw his character grow. It was a very important part of his life and I'm proud to say he wears a different uniform today as a second lieutenant in the United States Marine Corps and the values he learned in scouting are the same values he lives out today."

 

This fundraiser event raises more than a million dollars each year for Scouting.

 

http://www.wave3.com/story/34034329/vice-president-elect-mike-pence-speaks-at-boy-scouts-fundraiser

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