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SebCachia

Camoflage

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The issue may not be the colors at all but the shades and patterns. Camouflage basically blends you in with the shadows and light patterns of the woods.If camo were all grey and black it might still work well hiding from deer in a green and brown woods. That funky world war two camo doesn't match the colors of any where very well, but the pattern makes the human form less visible because the form is broken up. The tent thing I admit is a stretch for a defense for camouflage. Still, there is a part of low impact that deals with the immediate impact of a group (noise, bright colors). I remain firm that it is not necisairily a bad idea and that if camouflage were "un-banned" I don't think the public image of scouting would change in the least.

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I sure do love these;)

 

1 reason for camouflage has been said: LNT-- make it look as if you were never there.

 

Also, BDU pants are of similar price to, but better quality, "official Boy Scouts of America" pants.

 

If they kicked everybody out who wore camo to a camporee, etc then we wouldnt have many people left in our council.

 

Later, I'll come up with a list for you of the similarities (that I know of) between a Scout backpacker and an infantryman. There are several.

 

Oh, and to whoever said that they had a pair of the new digital camo, you do realize that you can be fined for doing so because those are not sold retail because the Marines dont want it out there.

But I do agree that having pockets on the sleeves would be nice.

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This is the reason I quit replying to forums with other scouters. True there are many lessons to learn and alot of experience to gain from others, but then there are some that want to preach BSA policy till they run it in the ground. I know what the policy is and I know why they have uniforming policies, BUT I'm sorry if everyone doesn't agree but policy doesn't work for everyone in every situation. FOR instance... Sure your suppose to wear your uniform a certain way, but here is a good example of when we don't wear it by policy but it works to our troop's advantage. Last summer we went on a 7 day backpacking trip. Now as I stated in an earlier post class A uniforms are not practicle for backpacking. On some days when we were on the trip, especially in populated areas, we had our guys wear their class A top with what ever pants they were comfortable wearing. Sure it's not regulation and it probably breaks dozens of uniforming policies but... we were visible as scouts! People commented on how nice our scouts looked... they took notice of us that we were SCOUTS! Now I'm sorry if that offends some in the scouting community, but it gets us noticed and in a positive light! If we had been wearing class B type uniforms like tee shirts or something different, chances are no one would have noticed us at all. This is not the 1800's its 2004! And I dare to say that there are very few people if any in the United States that doesn't know what the Boy Scouts of America are all about. They know we are not paramilitary and they know we arent hunters! We do not allow our scouts to wear Class A uniforms with camo unlike what was presumed in another post. We encourage them to wear only official BSA issue, but we don't condem them if they wear other style pants of the same or simmilar color. We have a few boys that just can't comfortably wear scout pants. But they have found dress slacks or other type of pants that unless you look at the buttons or tags, you wouldnt know they weren't BSA issue. BSA has many other issues that we all need to be worrying about more than whether a scout wears camo pants or not!

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"If camo were all grey and black it might still work well hiding from deer in a green and brown woods."

 

Deer are color blind which is why they sell hunting camo which has blaze orange as one of the colors.

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Looking around at my troop meeting last night, I thought that camo pants might be an improvement over what was being worn.

 

Our last Scoutmaster thought that the whole idea of a uniform was "silly," (his words and often expressed in front of the Scouts) so we have much inertia to overcome.

 

Pants that I saw last night included baggy pale blue basketball shorts. Baggy gangster jeans. Some sort of baggy jeans with buckles and studs all over them. Only two pair of green pants of any sort were visible on the Scouts and one pair belonged to my son.

 

I know that one ASPL has Scout pants because he bought them for his Eagle Board but he never wears them (his father also thinks that uniforms are "silly").

 

 

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Blaze 66,

 

A scout wearing the field uniform shirt with blue jeans is not a problem. The scouts are encouraged to wear as complete and correct a uniform as possible.

 

The problem comes in when someone says that the uniform the troop wears is a field uniform shirt with blue jeans. No one outside of the the national executive committee has the authority to alter the uniform standards.

 

I am sorry if a leader would rather not know the policies they promised to follow. Sadder still is someone who knows the policies, understands that as a leader they have a responsibility to follow them, and then chooses not to because they find them inconvenient.

 

Which rules do the scouts in the unit you serve have to follow, and which members get to ignore whichever rules they choose to? Playing a game by the rules is something they learn, or don't learn, by your example.

 

If you are frustrated by me or by others who are always supporting the BSA policies, just think how we feel about the number of leaders looking for ways to violate them and still say what they are doing is scouting.

 

It isn't dressing like a football player that makes you one, It's playing the game by the rules of football, It's not wearing the scout uniform that makes you one, it's playing by the rules and methods of scouting.

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It's not that I or anyone in my troop is trying to find ways to violate BSA policy, because we are not. Your talking to a person in a troop that makes sure that every I is dotted and T is crossed when it comes to filling out tour permits! And we are the ONLY troop in our whole council that fills out a tour permit to the letter every time we go somewhere! So don't say that im trying to find ways to violate policy just from the few comments that have been made in this forum. Look at what you just said in your last post, its not the uniform that makes the football player its the way you play the game. Scouting is no different, its not about a uniform its about everything else that scouting is about. You can't say that just because a boy or a leader doesn't wear their uniform correctly that they are not scouts! If you don't like the way we wear our uniforms then call the uniform police! I don't know of a single District Exec who is going to jump down your throat for not following uniform policy. We preach constantly in our troop UNIFORM UNIFORM UNIFORM but what are you going to do tell a boy he cant come back to scouts because he won't wear his uniform correctly? If we did that half our boys would leave! Im sorry but there are bigger battles that you should be fighting than is your uniform correct. And just because you don't wear your uniform 100% correctly doesn't mean your bad leaders or bad scouts and it doesn't mean that your always trying to find ways to violate policy. There is not a person in this forum you Bob included that has not at some point in time in your BSA history violated something in policy.

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Blaze reread my post. There is no violation in a scout or adult who is not in a full uniform.I am not aware of anyone posting that it was.

 

The violation is in a leader or unit who say that "their unit's" uniform is a field uniform shirt and jeans. There is no Class A/Class B uniform in scouting. You are either in a BSA uniform or you are not in a BSA uniform. It is no different than if a leader or unit altered an advancement requirement.

 

Leaders should always support the entire uniform. If the scout doesn't own the entire uniform then he should wear what he has as completely and correctly as possible and be urged and supported to assemble a complete unifrom.

 

The Uniform is determined by national. It is a method to teach and support other methods and behaviors. But it only works if used consistently. Youth need a consistent method to learn. Many scouters involved in training have a responsibility to other leaders, and to the program, to be consistent in what they say and do. Because adults learn best from consistency as well.

 

There are over a million and a half adult volunteers in the BSA. I do not know how you can be so sure that everyone of them has violated a BSA policy at some time. There aren't that many policies and they aren't that tough to follow.

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Ok excuse me for being OLD SCHOOL, there is no Class A or Class B by official policy, its OFFICIALLY called Field uniform and Activity uniform. But every troop and district in our council and even council still refers to it as Class A and Class B. And I never said that Our OFFICIAL uniform requirements are anything but BSA policy. I just said we tolarate it because 1, alot of our boys cant afford scout pants and two we have much bigger battles to fight than whether they do wear full uniforms. I never said we dont push full uniforms or dont try to get them to follow BSA Guides for uniforming. If you look at most troops ACTIVITY uniform referecnes you will see it says non logo clean jeans or shorts. So lets go back to the original question, is camo acceptable. In my opinion NO! But not because BSA policy says no and not because I think it makes BSA look like its military affiliated nor because I think someone is trying to mimic military uniforms. I don't think its acceptable because it just doesnt match or look good with the BSA Field Uniform Shirt! BUT I am not going to tell a scout he can't wear it if he want's to in a situation where we are doing activities and not at meetings or ceremonies or parades etc... If you really want to get ticked off, come to our spring camporee, all the activities are going to be held at night and probably 90% of the boys and leaders (District and Council leaders included) are going to wear camo! In fact its being encouraged!

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"Ok excuse me for being OLD SCHOOL, there is no Class A or Class B by official policy, its OFFICIALLY called Field uniform and Activity uniform. But every troop and district in our council and even council still refers to it as Class A and Class B."

 

Old School? There never has been a Class A or Class B in BSA so that can't possibly be Old School Class A is a military term that has been picked up by Scouters because they think that it sounds cool.

 

As for everyone using it, that still doesn't make it right and doesn't mean that you have to follow suit.

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I agree with Blaze. I mean shouldnt we spend more time teaching our scouts the true values of scouting. Scouting isnt based on looking impressive in a $100 uniform. Its not about impressing the rest of society by what uniform we wear but what youth we produce. I mean for as im sure you all know at the end of a camp or expedition anypants be they $5 or $100 and if they had a camo pattern or were bright orange all smell and look like mud. Why worry about that and ignore other importaint stuff like what our scouts are realy learning out of the experience. For public displays the proper uniform should always be worn as image is everything but in the outdoors shouldnt we just let our scouts wear what they work well in.

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Blaze,

 

The uniform is not required by BSA policy. Bob is correct in that scouts are requested to wear as complete a uniform and as correctly as they can. The idea of the uniform is to build a sense of belonging to a group and the hope is that a boy will wear it out of choice rather than force. You say that boys would quit if they were made to wear the complete uniform. Hogwash! My son played baseball, basketball and took Tae Kwon Do. All REQUIRED a uniform. There were elements of the uniform that the boys didn't like. Some boys disliked wearing hats, but they knew they had better not show up for a ball game without it on their head or they'd sit on the bench. They also knew they had better wear the hat turned the right way. If the uniform was a blue jersy and white pants, they had better not show up in black pants. The uniform identified them with the team. They had pride in their team. Boy's didn't quit the sports team because the coach preached at them about proper uniforming and taking pride in it. It was not an option, it was required. The scout uniform is expensive, but not as pricey as sports uniforms. I'd easily spend $150 a year on his baseball uniforms. I'm getting a break in scouting. I for one wish the BSA did require full uniforming. Even though they were forced to wear a complete uniform correctly in sports, they eventually took pride in wearing it and chose to in the long run. I for one am tired of seeing kids wearing sweat pants, wind pants and baggy jeans with their uniform shirt when I know good and well that they can afford uniform pants.

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Let me clarify one point. Once the scout is in the field, I think he should dress appropriately for the activity. The uniform is not designed for canoeing or rappeling. For BOR's, COH's, meetings, travel, camp ceremonies and campfires, I think a full uniform should be worn.

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Beaver Dude said, "The uniform is not designed for canoeing or rappeling."

 

I find it interesting that until the current handbook was released, the handbook identified the uniform as ideal clothing for outdoor activities.

 

Maybe what BSA really needs to to get away from the designer uniform and go back to a practical uniform that can be worn outdoors and with the application of soap and an iron looks good for ceremonies.

 

Beaver Dude also said, "You say that boys would quit if they were made to wear the complete uniform. Hogwash! My son played baseball, basketball and took Tae Kwon Do. All REQUIRED a uniform."

 

Oh how true but don't you know that there's a difference? Sports are importants and Scouts is just . . . well, Scouts. At least that's what I've been told.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, what galls me the most is the mom who cruises up in her $40,000 SUV, takes an annual sea cruise during spring break, shops at Nieman-Marcus, and then complains about the cost of Scouting.

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FOG,

 

What do you think would happen if A-Rod showed up for his first Yankees game wearing a Yankees jersey and Rangers pants? LOL

 

We had a boy join our old Pack and his Mom requested financial assistance for his joining fee. By all appearances, they don't seem to have much money. One night after a den meeting I walked out into the parking lot and saw a very sharp looking new Mustang. Who was driving it? You guess!

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