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Sentinel947

"Boy Scouts thrive after lifting of gay ban."

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Well, what are the actual figures?  The article said membership is "stabilizing".  I hope they're right.

Some cheap seat math here:

http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2016/05/26/dr-robert-m-gates-america-needs-scouting/

 

So Gates referenced membership loss of less than 3% last year, compared to more than 6% in each of the previous two years.

If the trend holds, BSA will be back to it's usual bleed.

My definition of thriving in this climate: 1 or 2% gains over a number of decades.

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Hmmmmm, the day is coming......

 

Christian worship services are open to anyone wishing to come... thus it can be defined as a public place.

 

Christian pastor reading from scripture about such things as sin, will soon be held accountable for promoting hate speech and be arrested.

 

This is how the intolerant work to silence free speech.  Free speech in America is no longer a basic freedom in the Bill of Rights, the others will fall one by one after that is successfully implemented.

You're already late to the party Stosh, https://www.adflegal.org/detailspages/press-release-details/sermons-on-biblical-sexuality-illegal-in-iowa

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Not really.  :)

 

"The lawsuit is known in legal circles as a “pre-enforcement challenge,†a lawsuit that allows citizens to challenge a law—in this case, a law that threatens First Amendment freedoms—before the government enforces it against them. For example, organizations such as the American Civil Liberties Union and Planned Parenthood routinely file such lawsuits against laws they oppose."

 

The emphasis is my addition to point out that no one's been dragged out of the pulpit....yet.  It's a sad day in America when we see the slow train wreck coming from a long way away.  It's even sadder to think that this possibility even exists in America. 

 

Once they try and take their Bibles and their guns, the silent will not stay silent. 

 

The war has already started.  It's just that history hasn't figured it out.  Was it Nat Turner, John Brown or P. T. Beauregard that really started the war?  Or how many people were killed by Gavrilo Princip's one bullet?

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I have seen no one leave because of the ban. I know it was an issue, but then died out. People my area seem to not care about it. Personally, I do not know why it was a big deal...then again I grew up with people who were gay.

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I have seen no one leave because of the ban. I know it was an issue, but then died out. People my area seem to not care about it. Personally, I do not know why it was a big deal...then again I grew up with people who were gay.

 

Back when DALE was announced it was going to SCOTUS, I had a CO tell me they would no longer charter a pack. I had until the end of the School year, about 4 months, for the pack to find a new CO as they would no longer be allowed on the property.

 

When BSA changed the youth membership standards, we lost a bunch leaders, donors, and an entire troop went to Trails Life. In fact, it was the troop my son first visited and wanted to join. Our membership number in my district have dropped, and it looks as if we may have to merge with another district because we do not have enough youth members to justify a DE.

 

When BSA changed the leadership standards, the CO of my pack had a meeting with the CM and SM about how they will not allow any homosexual leaders in the troop, and that if they are forced to take them, the units would be dropped I a heartbeat.

 

So it's affected my area.

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I have seen no one leave because of the ban. I know it was an issue, but then died out. People my area seem to not care about it. Personally, I do not know why it was a big deal...then again I grew up with people who were gay.

There were several local COs around here that left because of the change, but we got several new ones to replace them (some that have been waiting in the wings for years until the ban was lifted - some of which had been COs pre-dale) so the total number of units is now about the same. But I'm not sure what the effect has been on the number of scouts. I know that it made recruiting and selling popcorn easier. Lots of schools that used to say no to recruiting flyers and such now are saying yes. Plus more businesses are open to allowing popcorn sales on their property.

 

When the ban first got back into the news (when the BSA first floated the change), lots of parents in our cub pack (and scouters in my district based on discussions at round table ) were unaware of the ban (and many were bothered by it). Also a lot of COs and sponsors appeared to have been unaware of the ban. Several businesses dropped their sponsorship of the local council at that time saying they didn't know the BSA was discriminatory.

 

The sad part is that now that the ban is over, many people and organizations don't know it yet. I hear from people at the council that they still run into the "we can't support you because of your anti-gay policies". I guess it took a boat load of news stories and publicity to establish the "BSA is anti-gay" reputation, and it's going to take an equal boat load of news stories and publicity to get rid of it. Only the membership policy is out of the news (as it should be), so it's going to take a while.

Edited by Rick_in_CA

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Not really.  :)

 

"The lawsuit is known in legal circles as a “pre-enforcement challenge,†a lawsuit that allows citizens to challenge a law—in this case, a law that threatens First Amendment freedoms—before the government enforces it against them. For example, organizations such as the American Civil Liberties Union and Planned Parenthood routinely file such lawsuits against laws they oppose."

 

The emphasis is my addition to point out that no one's been dragged out of the pulpit....yet.  It's a sad day in America when we see the slow train wreck coming from a long way away.  It's even sadder to think that this possibility even exists in America.

The problem is that they are suing to prevent something that is not going to happen. The law has been in place since 2007 and has not been used to force a church to do anything. Plus the law clearly exempts churches unless they are doing something not related to religion (such as acting as a poling place or running an outside business). But we can't let the facts get in the way of generating fear. This is not a campaign to protect churches, but a tactic to overturn LGBT protections all over the state (their argument is basically: "since it might be applied to a church, it shouldn't be applied anywhere").

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The emphasis is my addition to point out that no one's been dragged out of the pulpit....yet.  It's a sad day in America when we see the slow train wreck coming from a long way away.  It's even sadder to think that this possibility even exists in America. 

 

 

 

I won't hold my breath waiting for such a rightwing fantasy to happen, just like those imaginary FEMA death camps.

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Only the membership policy is out of the news (as it should be), so it's going to take a while.

 

There's still the ban on atheists, and yes, atheist organizations do and will object to recruitment in public schools.

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Sadly a SM I know from Polk County who I went through OA Ordeal with told me his entire Troop of 18 boys disbanded over the policy. It was a Baptist sponsored unit out of a small church and the adults let the boys discuss with no adults in the room. He said 3 of the 18 went to a BP unit but it surprised him.

 

I also know two adults who left (but were kind of fading out anyway) and one new parent who came 'in' because of it--that was our unit. 

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It depends on which numbers you're looking at.

 

My unit hasn't had any significant change in registration numbers due to the decision, but we have changed where we go camping.  We don't go to BSA council camps anymore.

 

The council camps were hurting before this decision.  I wonder how they are going to do now?

 

I have personally had a major change of attitude in regard to the rash of campground closings we have seen in recent years.  I was previously very much opposed to closing the camps.  I was very vocal about it.

 

Now that we won't be using them anymore, why should I even care?

Edited by David CO

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The problem is that they are suing to prevent something that is not going to happen. The law has been in place since 2007 and has not been used to force a church to do anything. Plus the law clearly exempts churches unless they are doing something not related to religion (such as acting as a poling place or running an outside business). But we can't let the facts get in the way of generating fear. This is not a campaign to protect churches, but a tactic to overturn LGBT protections all over the state (their argument is basically: "since it might be applied to a church, it shouldn't be applied anywhere").

Well, that's not clear.  The Iowa Civil Rights Commission has removed the document from their site but the relevant paragraph from the story I quoted is:

 

As the complaint filed with the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Iowa explains, the commission published its position in a publication titled “A Public Accommodations Provider’s Guide to Iowa Law.†In a question-and-answer section, the document asks, “Does this Law [the Iowa Civil Rights Act] Apply to Churches?†The guide answers the question by saying, “Sometimes." Iowa law provides that these protections do not apply to religious institutions with respect to any religion-based qualifications when such qualifications are related to a bona fide religious purpose. Where qualifications are not related to a bona fide religious purpose, churches are still subject to the law’s provisions. (e.g. a child care facility operated at a church or a church service open to the public).â€

 

​The argument is the church is a public accommodation as soon as the service is open to the public.

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The clergy in our area have already been warned that saying homosexuality is a sin constitutes hate speech.  I suppose reading that out loud from Scripture in a public forum, i.e. Sunday Worship, will cause reason for arrest.  These are not just murmurings, they are published documents from major church sources.  We are that far down the slippery slope.

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The clergy in our area have already been warned that saying homosexuality is a sin constitutes hate speech. 

 

Warned by who?  And warned how?  In writing?

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