Troop Recruiting

[David CO 1783]

"Poaching", really?  Do you say the same thing when a youth leaves Scouts to play soccer?  Scouts are volunteers - allowing for parent influence, they stay involved in the things that are most fun, match their interests and fit their schedule; they stay with the groups where their friends are and where they feel welcome.  If Scouts were leaving my unit for another unit, I would definitely be talking to both them and the other unit to find out where we came up short.

 

Yes, Really.

 

Our scout unit is part of our youth ministry.  It is not at all like soccer.  Soccer doesn't have a religious component.

[Stosh 3452]

So why would scouts be wanting to leave your program in the first place?

[David CO 1783]

So why would scouts be wanting to leave your program in the first place?

 

Any number of reasons.

[Stosh 3452]

So then if they go to another unit it's really not poaching.  I kinda define poaching as actively recruiting away.  If one has a good program that the boys like, poaching is pretty much non-existent.  I find it's really more than just a religious issue then at that point.  That kinda takes the religious argument out of the equation, at least for me.

[David CO 1783]

The religious argument is never out of the equation.

 

A boys loyalty to his church is a lot more important than any other program issues that might arise.

[Stosh 3452]

A boy's loyalty to his faith is a lot more important than any other church program issues that might arise.  So where does evangelizing one's buddies fit in?  We can't always understand the depth of other's hearts especially when the focus is always on being sent, never gathering together 

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

If someone was poaching from my unit, I wouldn't be on speaking terms with them either.

 

I gotta laugh at that because you need to read my previous posts over the years about this troop. I have bent over backwards trying to help this troop out.  Here's a quick summary of the past 6 or 7 years.

 

As soon as I found out the old SM was stepping down and that the new SM and other leaders did not have IOLS, I set up an IOLS course in 3 months working around that troop's schedule specifically to get their leaders trained. The SM was the only one to attend and told me the reason no one else showed up was "it's too cold to camp."

 

When their UC (who was very active, knowledgeable, and attempted to help them) died, I was appointed UC and tried to help them, only to be told "Scouting needs to change with the times," and ignored. Thinking the SM might listen to the old SM and a former ASM ( he moved to the crew at this point and was district training chair) I got them involved in trying to mentor the SM. They too were ignored.

 

When the district and pack was recruiting new Cubs and some Boy Scout aged boys showed up, against my better judgment I recruited for the troop. When I ran into them again, 4-6 months later, they had quit the troop and would not consider looking at other troops. EDITED: against my better judgment because I had ran into several Scouts from the troop who either quit, transferred to another unit, or were only registered to stay active with the OA and not the troop. The exodus from the troop had started 2-3 years before my son made a decision to join a different troop.

 

When the pack and I begged them for den chiefs to not only assist the pack, but also build the relationship with the Boy Scouts and help with recruiting for the troop, we were ignored the first year. Second year they reluctantly provided den chiefs only when they found out another troop asked if they could provide den chiefs ( not my troop by the way). Those den chiefs caused more problems and were eventually sent home and asked not to come back after about 2 months.

 

When the pack and I begged the SM to invite the Webelos to camp, not only to meet Webelos advancement, but also develop a relationship with the potential new Scouts, it was reluctantly given, the Webelos were not treated nicely, and the troop had major issues. We  begged them two more years to invite us to a camp out, despite the negative experience, only to be told  "No" one year, and the second year we got the invite the week before the event, at which point we had accepted another troop's invitation because we had not heard form them.

 

When my son decided he would not join that troop after camping with them one time (it was pretty bad), only one Scout and parent in the den knew he was not joining them; his best friend. All four of us deliberately stayed quiet about it until the last minute so that we would not influence the others. Eventually 2 of those who joined quit Scouting altogether, 2 transferred to our troop, and only 1 remained in that troop as his dad is an ASM.

 

When the troop didn't have enough leaders to camp because most of the Scouts and leaders left early, I stayed behind to make sure they had 2 deep leadership, and tried to talk to the SM about Training, boy run, etc to no avail.

 

When the troop finally did do something with the Webelos this past March and  the Scouts and I were at the campfire and talking about ways to get involved with the Cubs and ways to recruit new Scouts after having 2 years with no new Scouts crossing over to them, I was told to "SHUT UP AND GO TO BED!" by the SM.

 

I don't think I have poached, and that's why I gotta laugh.

Edited July 22, 2016 by Eagle94-A1

[David CO 1783]

As an IH, I am shaking my head in dismay.

 

First of all, if Eagle 94-A1 were in my unit, I would not allow him to serve in a unit position while he is representing the council as a UC. 

 

Secondly, if he were in my unit, I would not allow him to serve in a unit position while he is serving in a unit position for a different Chartered Organization.

 

It is not a good idea for a scouter to wear too many "hats", particularly when doing so might create the appearance of a conflict of interest. 

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

I agree it is not good as it leads to burn out. And I do agree I wear too many hats. Trust me I've stepped back from to focus on the two units I serve.

 

As for the UC role, gotta remember I'm the Assistant District Commissioner for Cub Scout Roundtable, and was asked to be the temporary UC when the CO's UC died and they could find a replacement. Reason being was that I was with the CO, but not with the troop, and maybe the SM would listen to me. Didn't happen, and I asked to be replaced before a UC could be found. Long story short, there have been two UCs since me, one who was a former ASM with the troop who moved for 2 years and then moved back. Everyone who has tried to help have shaken their head in dismay with the troop.

 

As for not allowing a Scouter to serve a unit with with another CO, I respect that and understand. You can read in some of my threads how hard it has been for me to remain "neutral" and how I've stayed with the pack because A) friendships my Cubs and I have made and B) sense of commitment to the pack.

 

I admit if the pack's IH asked me to step aside, I would with great sadness because i think it would destroy the pack. When the Troop's CO restarted their pack and troop,  they asked one of my pack's DLs to be the CM. He stepped down, but didn't say why/ No one knew that the CO was restarting the pack and troop until he showed up to the first Roundtable fo the School year. Over a 4 month period, via word of mouth 1/2 out pack transferred.

 

Thankfully my Troop's IH will not give me a choice between his church or the pack's church. We've discussed the matter, and he understands and appreciates my sense of commitment to the pack

[David CO 1783]

That is one of the risks of accepting too many people from outside your CO.  If they suddenly decide to form their own unit with their own CO, it can have devastating consequences for your unit.

[Stosh 3452]

That is one of the risks of accepting too many people from outside your CO.  If they suddenly decide to form their own unit with their own CO, it can have devastating consequences for your unit.

 

If one were running a BSA program why would they want to form their own unit.  It is always far easier to go with what's there than strike out on one's own unless, of course, going is far more productive than staying  Always difficult to start a unit, but worth it if one is getting away from a poorly run program.

[T2Eagle 902]

The religious argument is never out of the equation.

 

A boys loyalty to his church is a lot more important than any other program issues that might arise.

Is loyalty to a church the same as loyalty to a scout unit?  I was under the impression that your unit was Catholic.  I can't think of any theological argument that would mandate a young man be in a catholic sponsored rather than a non catholic sponsored unit; my understanding is we're not bound even to our home parish let alone a school.  

 

That any unit is the best let alone the only appropriate scouting experience for any boy, irrespective of their faith, would seem very hubristic.

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

If one were running a BSA program why would they want to form their own unit.  It is always far easier to go with what's there than strike out on one's own unless, of course, going is far more productive than staying  Always difficult to start a unit, but worth it if one is getting away from a poorly run program.

 

Reason why my friend left and restarted the pack was because the IH is an Eagle, saw that the church had at one time one of the oldest troops and packs in the council, and saw a need for a pack and troop. Very hard to say no to your pastor. That CO wants members of the church as CM and SM, and asked him to be CM.

 

Funny thing about the pack, they "ripped off and duplicated" my pack's program. Some minor differences, but overall identical. This has been pointed out on multiple occasions when I and my middle son were asked to switch packs.

 

That is one of the risks of accepting too many people from outside your CO.  If they suddenly decide to form their own unit with their own CO, it can have devastating consequences for your unit.

 

If you have enough folks from your CO to run units, more power to you! In my 34 years of Scouting with 4 different councils, only 1 unit I was ever affiliated with ever had 50+ percent of the unit's leadership and youth as members of the CO, and that was the pack I was in as a youth. And that was only because the pack was chartered to the church we all went to, and not the parochial school attached to the church that we met at. Otherwise it would have been under 50%.

 

I'm glad to be allowed to participate with other churches units. Very heavy anti-Catholic bias where I'm at, and when I started a pack as a DE at my church, the backlash was horrible. Pack dies within 9 months as we could not get enough kids and leaders to keep it going. Heck I had someone call me up and curse me out about having the new pack meet at a Catholic church, and they would not join Scouting if they let Catholics in.

 

Funny thing is that where I grew up at, about 75% of the COs were either Catholic churches, schools, or Knights of Columbus councils.

 

Somewhat back on topic. I did not join the troop that my church chartered because they had nothing to do with my pack: no den chiefs, invitations to camp outs, NOTHING (emphasis). One of the few non-Catholic troops provided a den chief to my den, and Bob's your uncle I joined them since I knew one of them, camped with them, etc. Now I did leave when new adult leadership came aboard, but it was still not my church's troop, but another one. Very glad that other COs were friendly and courteous enough to let me join.

[David CO 1783]

Is loyalty to a church the same as loyalty to a scout unit?  I was under the impression that your unit was Catholic.  I can't think of any theological argument that would mandate a young man be in a catholic sponsored rather than a non catholic sponsored unit; my understanding is we're not bound even to our home parish let alone a school.  

 

That any unit is the best let alone the only appropriate scouting experience for any boy, irrespective of their faith, would seem very hubristic.

 

The Catholic Church recently decided that all units chartered by Knights of Columbus are to be turned over to the parish youth ministries.  This was done to emphasize that the parish should be the focus of all our organized youth activities.

 

The current trend in the Catholic Church is to be more parish focused, not less so.

 

In no way should this reflect badly on the Knights of Columbus.  Nor should it indicate an attitude on our part that our parish staff can do a better job of running units than the KCs.

 

The Catholic Church is simply becoming more parish focused that we were a decade or two ago.

 

Catholic parishes, their schools, and their scout units do not make these decisions irrespective of faith.  Neither should our scouts.

Edited July 23, 2016 by David CO

[David CO 1783]

If one were running a BSA program why would they want to form their own unit.  It is always far easier to go with what's there than strike out on one's own unless, of course, going is far more productive than staying  Always difficult to start a unit, but worth it if one is getting away from a poorly run program.

 

I don't see a spin-off as reflecting badly on the original unit.