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zuzy

Eagle board of review?

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As a guess, I would say that troops that provide practice EBORs have an expectation that the EBOR itself is going to be difficult, probably because the EBORs ask "gotcha" questions, or have a particular set of expectations about how a scout should answer and/or what a scout should answer.  If that's the EBOR your scout will face than a practice EBOR isn't a bad idea, and practicing anything usually makes you better at it.

 

As a professional I have interviewed hundreds of job candidates, most of them for jobs requiring a college or even graduate degree.  I long ago stopped being surprised at folks who are otherwise very capable in their field who are not particularly good at that type of communication.  My role as an interviewer is to find out whether the person will be good at the job not whether they are good at interviewing.  Likewise an EBOR has a responsibility to "determine the quality of [a scout's] experience and decide whether he has fulfilled the requirements for the rank', not to decide if they're good at playing rhetorical games with adults.  

 

If your EBORs are difficult for scouts whose other advancement achievements you've approved, then you should be working at changing your EBORs, but in the mean time you probably should help your scouts prepare for them because it's not really reasonable to expect a 17 year old doing something for the first time to be as extemporaneously clever as a group of fifty somethings who are probably doing something for dozenth time. 

 

Well said.  I'd only promote troop practice EBORs if the district level EBOR was not conducted to be a positive and friendly experience for the scout.  

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... How does one respectfully take on a panel of austere older scouters when the candidate is in his mid teens? ...

 

IMHO, this is why the scout has a unit leader sit in the room.  If the EBOR is out of place, the scout leader should call them on it.  Period.  

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We are invited to sit in silently. There is an opportunity at the end after the Scout steps out of the room to make comments about the boy only. Not much wiggle room.

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IMHO, this is why the scout has a unit leader sit in the room.  If the EBOR is out of place, the scout leader should call them on it.  Period.  

As I said, our Eagle candidates typically have the maturity to handle themselves with respect and dignity in a EBOR. Prepping our scouts would be like prepping a 45 year old ASM.

 

Our district, as far as I know, has never caused any drama on their part. And around here, asking the SM to sit in the scout's EBOR is more a formality of tradition to show honor and respect to the leader of the program where the scout developed his Eagle qualities. Our scouts personally handle their Eagle paperwork and arrange their EBOR themselves and have to invite the SM to his EBOR. If the scout chooses to not invite the SM to his EBOR, the SM might not even know the Scout's EBOR took place until Council announced the Scout is officially an Eagle. That's never happened, but it shows how much responsibility the scout has in the process compared to the adult leaders. 

 

Until this discussion, I have never heard of troops sending the SM to EBORs to protect their scout.. So I'm curious to learn of the experiences that would cause concern for your scout at the EBOR. What does "EBOR is out of place" mean?

 

Barry

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Our District EBOR guy, while over worked, is wonderful. But before him some EBOR were kinda 'gotcha' star chambers and the boys felt ambushed. So we started offering the practice...it is not required...just like offering your buddy an ear to practice their speech or a dry run before a job interview. Some people need 'em, some just want the confidence boost. It just seems like a scout like thing to offer. But yeah I see the danger in it becoming a new hoop or requirement.

 

For my son who is on the autism spectrum I would have asked anyway. The physical rehearsal helps reduce stress and he gives truer answers (not obsessing over weird stuff). As an aside we did this with TSA and he got to board a plane before an international flight and it helped a lot.

 

When we do a practice we might give some reminders but mostly it is to give encouragement. Any 'after review' is really an excuse to prolong the congratulations and find out any fun stuff from the review.

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Our District EBOR guy, while over worked, is wonderful. But before him some EBOR were kinda 'gotcha' star chambers and the boys felt ambushed.

I don't doubt your troop is justified in helping the scouts, but can you describe to me what the EBOR did to make the scout's feel ambushed? I am (warning for moderators) ignorant of such experiences. And, what is 'gotcha' star chambers? Is that some video game? Boy I feel old. :blink:

 

Barry

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Some folks who sat in on the boards who thought it was a final exam for a military rank. Not accepting the scout's answers on what he wanted to do with his life as 'worthy of an eagle'. Threatening to turn down the scout because he muffed the outdoor code. Throwing a rope at him and telling him to do a bowline. Basically bullying the interviewee because...well he could. Eventually some wise old hands intervened with national and things were cleaned up. I guess it spoiled the fun for some.

 

This was a real good kid, former SPL, with 45+ MB. He did go on to a service academy so I guess he was not scarred for life.

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I don't doubt your troop is justified in helping the scouts, but can you describe to me what the EBOR did to make the scout's feel ambushed? I am (warning for moderators) ignorant of such experiences. And, what is 'gotcha' star chambers? Is that some video game? Boy I feel old. :blink:

 

Barry

 

Probably not old enough if you missed the reference to The Star Chamber

 

Or, perhaps, the secret English court of law

Edited by MrBob

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Basically bullying the interviewee because...well he could. Eventually some wise old hands intervened with national and things were cleaned up. I guess it spoiled the fun for some.

 

Yep, that is uncalled for. 

 

Thanks

 

Barry

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I see that , as unit BoRs for the lesser ranks are done POSSIBLY according to BSA National guidelines, but are sometimes done however the unit Scouters think they should be done (enough discussion about that on these forums, eh?) ,  EBoRs are, by contrast, accomplished in very formal, regular, absolutely BSA regulation everyone the same style....   not.  

 

Here in Murlen,   our District Eagle Coordinators (three in our District) schedule three regular, monthly EBoR  sessions.   Each Troop calls ahead to the DEC of their choice to schedule the EBoR  for their candidate.  Each Ecandidate is expected to be (1) escorted to the EBoR by their SM or ASM, and a parent or two, (2) come fully, correctly uniformed (socks might not be checked, but neat clean shoes.  Uni trou might be newly bought or borrowed).  (3)  At the session, the accompanying  SM and  parent(s) are "volunteered" to serve on one of the other EBoRs held that night (yes, usually more than one.  If none scheduled, the DECs have that night off!). None may serve on the EBoR for their Scout.   (4)Each EBoR  is chaired by someone on the District Advancement Committee.  (5) The EBoR  is given all the Ecandidates records and reviews them,  MBrecord, project, intro letters, and all.  Yes, this is the final check, after Council. Yes, I have seen some discrepancies found and corrected right there.   (5) The SM comes in and introduces the Ecandidate to the EBoR and then leaves the room.  (6) It happens.  (7)  If he is passed, everyone on the EBoR sign the paperwork .    

 

When Scoutson  had his,  it lasted about 25 minutes.  He said it was "interesting" and he had been "challenged" by some of the discussion.   The board members came up to me and Good Wife after and complimented us on our son.    Good Wife served on one, said she had not been in something like that before, but she enjoyed it.  We were given a list of sample questions and some pre-board instruction.  We had 4 adults on my board , one other Scouter besides me. The Scout we "drew" in my board had one problem with a MB that had a date that did not match the rest of his record , but we were able to explain that with some discussion with his SM. It was not critical to his passing and had been a "partial" from  summer camp that was completed months later.  He was, as I remember, a very personable young man.   I'd vote for him for governor in twenty years....

Edited by SSScout
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We don't even look at dates of MB or rank advancement.  Scouts and leaders should get all that straight before the EBOR is scheduled.  If the Council Registrar as signed the application certifying that all dates are correct, we are good to go.  I am a "District Rep" on EBOR conducted at the unit level.

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Yup. All that checking needs to stop at some point or the finish line will never be met.

 

We usually have one last check at the lad's Eagle Court of Honor.  Haven't had to rip a medal off a Scout's uniform yet, but you never know!!!

 

 

(I kid, I kid!!!)

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One of the reasons why I do a pre-EBOR with the boys is because even if they have had the opportunity to be in a boy-led program, the EBOR members may not.  How does one respectfully take on a panel of austere older scouters when the candidate is in his mid teens?  Sure, if I were to do a practice with the boys, they know me, they know what I teach, they are excellent scouts for the most part.  But put in a room in a panel of unknown adults, all bets come off the table.  Sure they have gone through a few BORs over the years, the people on the panel are committee members and parents or both.  These are familiar faces and they know these people.  When I go into EBOR's with my boys, even I DON"T KNOW who these people are and I've been in the council with units in all three districts!  So in light of that, I practice and train the boys on what to expect because it is NOT the same old BOR they have been used to in the past.

 

Different councils may be set up differently and much of what I do would not be an issue, but we need to deal with the hand we're dealt and so we practice for the unknown and unexpected.

 

You don't have troop committee members/parents on the EBOR?  I know we have, and based on comments from them, they were glad that they were there--they have insights into the boys' experience that the district folks never have. That, and it does give the Eagle candidate familiar faces to have in the room with him.

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We don't even look at dates of MB or rank advancement.  Scouts and leaders should get all that straight before the EBOR is scheduled.  If the Council Registrar as signed the application certifying that all dates are correct, we are good to go.  I am a "District Rep" on EBOR conducted at the unit level.

Yup, for the EBORs I've been part of , that wasn't an issue--the council registrar has already ironed that stuff out. 

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