Changes to Introduction to Outdoor Leadership Skills

[David CO 1783]

I'm wasn't advocating more required skills courses - I was advocating that the BSA develop more advanced skills courses that can be offered to volunteers on an annual or biannual basis - someting interested parties in a District could offer across district boundaries, or even something  that could be offered as a more formalized training at summer camp - while the Scouts are out earning Merit Badges, the Leaders could be spending time learning too.  There are all these "commissioner college" courses out there - why no advanced outdoor skills courses?

 

I would like to see scouting remain a program for boys.  

 

There are plenty of other places where adults can learn outdoor skills.  I learned most of mine in college.  I know many junior colleges offer adult classes in Outdoor Education for teachers and recreation majors.

[TAHAWK 1420]

David, the idea, I thought, is that Scouters learn outdoor skills so they can pass them on to Scouts, preferably through other Scouts.  I too would not favor using Scouting resources only to make Scouters more skilled for themselves.

 

And teaching, promoting, and requiring the Patrol Method should have higher priority as it is a more important method (or at least B.S.A. has said so for generations).

[Sentinel947 1205]

I would like to see scouting remain a program for boys.

 

There are plenty of other places where adults can learn outdoor skills. I learned most of mine in college. I know many junior colleges offer adult classes in Outdoor Education for teachers and recreation majors.

I do not agree. Part of the BSA program issues stem from adults with no outdoors skills. They cannot pass on training to Scouts or supervise adventurous outings. Older boys can only do so much car camping before they get bored. Right around 14 years old. Many troop high adventure programs are only the BSA HA bases.

 

BSA requires a bare minimuim baseline for adults. It then provides opportunity to learn more advanced skills as needed. The program can remain a boys program, while still offering advanced training to adults.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Sentinel947

[David CO 1783]

If BSA were the only avenue available for adults to learn outdoor skill, to pass on to boys, I might agree with you.  But that isn't the case.  There are many other places for adults to learn these skills.

 

There is a real propensity for some adult leaders to try to turn scouting into an adult program.  Adults can get carried away sometimes, in both scouting and sports.

 

Scouting is a game for boys.  Yes, it is a game with a purpose, but it is still just a game.  A big part of my job is to keep it that way.

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

Don't get me wrong, I am an advocate for training. But I do wish the certs with expiration dates lasted longer than 2 years. And I wish that those certs that have prerequisite certs, i.e the Aquatics Supervision certifications (3 year certs) require Safe Swim and Safety Afloat (2 year certs), would automatically renew and extend to the higher certification's expiration date.

 

If you got an active unit, or involved in multiple units, it is extremely challenging to attend training, heck even schedule it. I'm now a WFA instructor, have been asked to conduct a WFA training, and I have no idea when I can do it before the end of the year. Between the pack, troop, and district, I can barely balance Scouting activities.

[TAHAWK 1420]

With the removal of first aid from Scoutmaster Specific, there may be more demand for WFA.

[David CO 1783]

Don't get me wrong, I am an advocate for training. But I do wish the certs with expiration dates lasted longer than 2 years. And I wish that those certs that have prerequisite certs, i.e the Aquatics Supervision certifications (3 year certs) require Safe Swim and Safety Afloat (2 year certs), would automatically renew and extend to the higher certification's expiration date.

 

If you got an active unit, or involved in multiple units, it is extremely challenging to attend training, heck even schedule it. I'm now a WFA instructor, have been asked to conduct a WFA training, and I have no idea when I can do it before the end of the year. Between the pack, troop, and district, I can barely balance Scouting activities.

 

This, too, is one of my concerns.

 

I have had unit leaders who became so involved in OA, district, and council functions that I needed to ask them to step down from their unit positions.

[David CO 1783]

I do not agree. Part of the BSA program issues stem from adults with no outdoors skills. They cannot pass on training to Scouts or supervise adventurous outings. Older boys can only do so much car camping before they get bored. Right around 14 years old. Many troop high adventure programs are only the BSA HA bases.

 

BSA requires a bare minimuim baseline for adults. It then provides opportunity to learn more advanced skills as needed. The program can remain a boys program, while still offering advanced training to adults.

 

Sometimes boys should move on.

 

By age 15, my nephew was at a outdoor skill level that went way beyond anything we could offer him.  We had nothing left to teach him.  Scouting was no longer fun for him.

 

He joined a group of guys who went into wilderness areas so remote they could only get there by float plane. 

 

I know that BSA would like to keep each and every boy until they hit 18, but that's not the goal of my Chartered Organization.  We offer a very nice camping program for boys, but we don't offer Green Beret training. 

Edited July 9, 2016 by David CO

[Sentinel947 1205]

Sometimes boys should move on.

 

By age 15, my nephew was at a outdoor skill level that went way beyond anything we could offer him. We had nothing left to teach him. Scouting was no longer fun for him.

 

I know that BSA would like to keep each and every boy until they hit 18, but that's not the goal of my Chartered Organization. We offer a very nice camping program for boys, but we don't offer Green Beret training.

 

We don't either.... why make up straw arguments? Basic backpacking is not a Green beret level skillset, but is hardly covered in BSA training.

 

Just because your CO has one set of goals doesnt mean the rest of us have to adopt your goals. That's the point of the charter system eh?

 

Again. I'm happy with the basic IOLs. The additional training should be out there for the folks who want to take it for use in their units.

 

Each Troop is going to be at a different level of programming based on their Scouts interests and their leaderships skillsets.

 

 

Scouts is not the only activity youth can be outdoors in. But it is one outdoor activity that the outdoors is for a broader purpose.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Sentinel947

[desertrat77 1144]

Increasing the rigor of the outdoor program and training is just what the BSA needs.

 

Kids want adventure.   Adults want adventure.   Car camping and Citizenship in the World MB can boring pretty quick.

 

But many adults in the BSA are not adventure minded, and if they are, they don't have the requisite training.   Not every community has non-BSA wilderness training opportunities.   I know we have none around this region.

 

If the BSA's image was "outdoor adventure" it would cause a recruiting boom.  Getting the right adults with the proper training is essential.

[SSScout 1615]

If you build it, and promote it, and publicize it and make it convenient, they will come.

 

IOLS is an INTRODUCTION to Outdoor Leader Skills.  It is intended as the bare minimum, the example of how a Scout might (might!) earn First Class,  only that.  The idea of offering more advanced training for Scouters to encourage them to train THEIR boys is laudable and done in some Councils.  Powder Horn comes to mind.  The idea of a Troop developing their own "High Adventure Trip " is a goal way beyond many volunteer leaders, but still a goal.

My Yearly Meeting (Quaker speak for Diocese thing) sponsors a summer camp program that would challenge any Scout.  Third graders go out of camp on backpacking trips, they hike and carry their gear , accompanied  by older counselors.   This coming week is the "Ten Day Trip" for teens graduating out of the program:  4 days on the Shenandoah canoeing, four days on the AT hiking/camping, and one day service project and  one "solo" night, out alone.   It is a challenge my Scoutson compared favorably with Philmont (no Mt. Baldy).  The kids train at the hands of their counselors, who take Rock Climbing cert course, NOLS courses, and such.   It is a lot.

 

If you would find the IOLS course less than an Intro, then I'm not sure what to do. 

[Stosh 3452]

With the removal of first aid from Scoutmaster Specific, there may be more demand for WFA.

 

"May be more demand?"  If not.... more and more boys don't go.  It's kinda sad BSA can't figure things like this out. 

 

after 35+ years of adult leading of units, former National Certified EMT-A, Emergency Rescue Technician, and no WFA class, I'm not qualified to take the boys anymore.  End of discussion, the boys don't go until they find someone other than their SM to take them.  He's no longer qualified.

[qwazse 4344]

I guess the question boils down to:

 

What does an adult need to know that a boy doesn't?

 

And, does an adult need to learn it in a different way?

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

Does anyone remember the time, when all you needed to go camping as fill out the form, and your First Class and above Scouts had First Aid Merit Badge, so you didn't need to worry about having folks with first aid certs?  I do, and I miss it.

[MrBob 96]

Does anyone remember the time, when all you needed to go camping as fill out the form, and your First Class and above Scouts had First Aid Merit Badge, so you didn't need to worry about having folks with first aid certs?  I do, and I miss it.

 

Heresy!  How could you possibly survive a night in the scary out-of-doors without at least a paper certificate from a technical college?