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John-in-KC

So This Happened

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... If the local high school swim team sponsored a swim day at day camp and showed up in swimwear, are the parents going to be bent out of shape?  Sorry, modern norms are such that on any given night, these same boys are watching "stuff" on TV and or internet far worse than Hooters girls.

If the team had had a Facebook page of girls posing in ways that suggest something other than competitive swimming?

 

As an SE, I wouldn't address that issue of norms at all. I would point out that it's rare to find volunteers for a weekend on a good summer. These ladies gave their time, their bosses freed up their schedule, and our donors deserve the credit they got. Any parent with a pool of similarly motivated employees are welcome to call HQ and line up a time to serve ,,,

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As a female, I don't see a problem with it.  I thought they were sufficiently covered.  Were the shorts too short?  Not really, you can go to Walmart on any given day and see much more skin from a lot of people who really shouldn't be showing that amount of skin.   :blink:

 

I am willing to bet that these Mom's who complained, never ever volunteer for anything in the pack or council.  They are probably the ones who are sitting in the back on their phones...

 

Susan

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While this may sound a bit tongue in cheek I am actually serious.

 

This kind of story is some of the best PR you can get.

 

Like it or not scouting does have a reputation as being a bit nerdy. Something like this gets in the news and suddenly, regardless of the facts, teenagers start to sit up and take note of what is actually going on.

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I don't see a problem with Hooters sponsoring the event. I don't seem a problem with the workers volunteering. As long as they are dressed differently than they are at work, that should not be an issue. Appropriate dress at any scout event is required. Giving out Hooters gear is a bit much though. While some kids might thinks it's about owls, those of us that are older know the double entendre. Still, if you're going to get your nose out of joint about this issue then scouts may not be for you.

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When I first read this article over the weekend, the first question that came to mind was this:  "I wonder how many of those complaining made a substantial donation to Friends of Scouting this year?"  As you all know, the money to run a Council comes from two places:  1.)Popcorn Sales; and 2.)FoS and other donations.  The $24 annual dues all go to national, not the Council.

 

The second question that came to mind was this, "How many of those complaining are volunteering their time to staff the day camp?"  I think we all know the answer to that one.

 

My employer encourages us to volunteer our time with non-profits.  In fact, if I volunteer so many hours each year, they'll make a $500 donation in my name to the non-profit of my choice.  Not to mention they encourage employees to give to non-profits.  If I donate to a bona-fide non-profit, they'll match my donation dollar for dollar.  If you take out the name of the company, it sounds like this employer does the same thing.  A Scout is helpful.  It would seem to me that these women were doing exactly what we encourage our Scouts to do in the Scout Law.  So where's the problem?

 

To my knowledge, there is no law against short shorts or tight tops in any state in the USA.  This isn't a strip club.  So what's the problem?  Perhaps it would have been wiser had the women left their corporate logo attire at home... then this would be a non-issue because I'm sure in the vast history of the BSA that we've had some former or current employee of this company volunteer their time in some capacity, perhaps even as a paid summer camp employee.  The only difference is that now we know about it.

 

Thank goodness the day camp wasn't staffed by members of a Democratic or Republican candidates election staff wearing their party hats and buttons... then instead of a small percentage of overly conservative folks objecting to it, we'd have nearly half the country up in arms.

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I haven't been here long, but do you guys always take swipes at people's political affiliations? What does this have to do with conservative or liberal values? Most liberals I know hate Hooters for objectifying women. Guess what? It's the same reason most conservatives I know hate Hooters. Why the swipe at political views?

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The lady being interviewed probably already has self-esteem issues, its probably the only reason she's upset.

 

My thoughts

"If you don't like the Sponsors your local Council finds to support its programs then why don't you sign up as a volunteer and help"

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There's a certain age, and a certain boy (or dad, or, indeed, mum, as can be the modern way) who may objectify hooters "girls". Maybe once they'd spent some time on camp with them, they'd see they were just normal people like themselves. Who happen to have to wear a different uniform. Is that a bad thing?

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The lady being interviewed probably already has self-esteem issues, its probably the only reason she's upset.

 

My thoughts

"If you don't like the Sponsors your local Council finds to support its programs then why don't you sign up as a volunteer and help"

@@JasonG172, I'm not a fan of diagnosis-via-news-story. Self-esteem is overrated most days. The Good Book describes it as a "who is my neighbor" issue. And I'd let it rest there.

 

... Not really, you can go to Walmart on any given day and see much more skin from a lot of people who really shouldn't be showing that amount of skin.   :blink: ...

That is the meanest thing about our post-modern culture ... the notion that some people are worthy to appear in certain forms of undress, by virtue of conformity to our media-fashioned goddess archetype, and others are not.

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I haven't been here long, but do you guys always take swipes at people's political affiliations? What does this have to do with conservative or liberal values? Most liberals I know hate Hooters for objectifying women. Guess what? It's the same reason most conservatives I know hate Hooters. Why the swipe at political views?

 

Is this directed at my comment?  When I said "conservative" I was in no means implying politically.  The original term I almost used was "prude" but I wanted to tone it down and chose "overly conservative folks" instead.  The definition of conservative is "holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation."  In my experience, usually when people get up in arms over Hooters it is because they view the company as immoral.  These types of folks feel that all women should be dressed in long skirts with tops that cover the entire chest right on up to the neck - just like in the "old days."  Hence my use of the term conservative - because what I just described is the very definition of conservative - resisting the change in women's attire (and values) that occurred during the last century.

 

Just for the record, I lean conservative politically on most issues, although not all.  I'll vote for the person I consider to be the best candidate regardless of their political party.  I suppose most would call me a moderate.  One thing I absolutely hate is people who are so far left or right that they couldn't find the middle with a GPS, compass, and wilderness guide.  I miss the days when we could on occasion all just get along and compromise and move ahead.  Now we all seem to be stuck bickering and fighting and trying to undo whatever the other guy or gal just did.  Hence the last part of my last post about Party hats/buttons.  Sadly a larger part of the country would be upset if their children were exposed to the opposite political party at Day Camp than if that Day Camp was run by a work release gang from the local prison. 

 

So if your comment was directed at me, I apologize if you took offense (although I do find it a bit ironic considering what we are all discussing), which makes me think you've probably been a victim of that which I hate - folks on the far right/left sniping at folks on the other side.  Since I'm in the middle I've witnessed that often enough, but (hopefully) you won't see that coming from me so please try to give any of my future posts the benefit of the doubt because I'm not the type to take pot shots at others over politics.

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There's a certain age, and a certain boy (or dad, or, indeed, mum, as can be the modern way) who may objectify hooters "girls". Maybe once they'd spent some time on camp with them, they'd see they were just normal people like themselves. Who happen to have to wear a different uniform. Is that a bad thing?

 

Yes, that is a bad thing.

 

They don't just happen to wear a different uniform.  They choose to wear a different uniform.

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Hooters:   "Who cooks, who cooks , who cooks for you awwwwl."

 

I think the CSDC folks obviously had the "older sister" image in mind, and heck,  the restaurant did a "good turn" thereby.  

 

One summer, at our CSDC,  I had to send a male Scout youth Assistant staff back to the Admin area because he had purposely torn his tshirt in a "heroic/beach" style (his words), obviously to impress the several Girl Scout staffers we had.   He was counseled, and reshirted and went back to serve the Cubs.  

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Is this directed at my comment?  When I said "conservative" I was in no means implying politically.  The original term I almost used was "prude" but I wanted to tone it down and chose "overly conservative folks" instead.  The definition of conservative is "holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation."  In my experience, usually when people get up in arms over Hooters it is because they view the company as immoral. 

 

I live in the heart of the Virginia Bible belt. The people down here are pretty conservative. I suspect you might think they were overly conservative. While the men tend to be fairly religious, many of them have no problems with Hooters. I know their wives do, and the men always talk a good game against Hooter around their wives, but they still end up there if they travel east. There are no Hooters I am aware of along I-81. There's a Tilted Kilt in Harrisonburg that gets popular on game day; of course, no one would want their daughters working there.

 

I would argue that the conservative folks I know are not against Hooters or other such institutions due to anything they consider immoral, rather the fact they think it objectifies women. My sister-in-law is what most folks would call a "limousine liberal" and she's against these establishments for the same reason.

 

I guess you could call objectifying women immoral, but that would be a pretty strict interpretation.

Edited by Back Pack

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