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Zaphod

Got the phone call from camp....

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So we should bring the LI-ION battery powered saws and power hammers?   The idea of Scouts is to make kids independent, safe, self assured , or so I've interpreted the "purposes".  No axes? No saws?   We have already eliminated Morse Code and  finding the north star/astronomy from First Class.  The FCScout was intended to be "prepared". I suppose that having your cell ready is one form of that.

You can buy a backpack that , thru the up and down motion, will charge your cell and tablet.  You can bring along a roll-up solar panel. For a price, you can avail yourself of the ingenuity of many others.  That is the benefit of civilization.

  Yep, many of the young Scouts I meet have rarely seen, much less used a compass.   Magnetic, that is.   Follow directions?   If it isn't in that 25mm screen, , is it real?

 

We , as Scouts, are often called on to deal with the situation in times  extremis. No electrical power?  Camp stove comes out, set fire in fireplace.  No heat?  Sleeping bags come out. No water?  Haul and boil.  

 

Will  the OA Ordeal  become doing without the Ipad?  That is an ordeal for some kids, I guess. 

I would like to think the Scout of today is aware of, and able to utilize, all the "ancient" technology that today's stuff has been built on. 

 

Well, they still have to be able to find directions during the day and at night without using a compass or an electronic device (2nd class 3c). They have to know how to use a compass (3b).

 

In First class, (4a) they have to use a map and compass to complete a mile long orientation course.    Now, they also have to know how to use the electronics as well (FC 4b)

 

Before they get to First Class, your young scouts should have at least passing familiarity with a map and compass. If they don't, they shouldn't be getting First Class rank. 

Edited by perdidochas

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You know what chaps my hide? Kids with these new-fangled things they are using to light fires. Little canisters of butane and a spark mechanism. Why when I was a lad all we were allowed to use were two sticks, AND WE LIKED IT!

 

In all seriousness, I used to be one of the "better not see electronics at a camp-out!" people. I then read an article that put it into perspective. These scout aged boys have NEVER lived in an era before cell-phones. Most of them don't remember a time before smart phones. 

 

Smart phones can be a great tool on a camping trip. They have a compass, you can do geocaching, you have apps that teach how to do knots, identify birds and plants, and be a rescue lifeline.

 

I'm sorry that there was miscommunication in your troop. Hopefully your son still has a good time and the good memories outweigh the bad.

 

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to hitch my oxen. I have to get home from work before fall sets in. ;)

 

I pretty much agree.  The good thing is that the more they use smartphones on scouting trips, the more they learn their limitations and the best way to use them.  My sons know that in wilderness that they can't run the GPS app all the time, and that it's best to use airplane mode, for example. 

 

I, personally, love the knot apps, as well as the nature ID apps.  I don't count on the phone for rescue, but I would use one if necessary. 

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You know what chaps my hide? Kids with these new-fangled things they are using to light fires. Little canisters of butane and a spark mechanism. Why when I was a lad all we were allowed to use were two sticks, AND WE LIKED IT!

 

In all seriousness, I used to be one of the "better not see electronics at a camp-out!" people. I then read an article that put it into perspective. These scout aged boys have NEVER lived in an era before cell-phones. Most of them don't remember a time before smart phones. 

 

Smart phones can be a great tool on a camping trip. They have a compass, you can do geocaching, you have apps that teach how to do knots, identify birds and plants, and be a rescue lifeline.

 

I'm sorry that there was miscommunication in your troop. Hopefully your son still has a good time and the good memories outweigh the bad.

 

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to hitch my oxen. I have to get home from work before fall sets in. ;)

well put!

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The boys are allowed to bring the same electronic devices I do.  If it has to be plugged in for any reason it stays home.  It's a good lesson to learn that if one has the DT's by Tuesday or Wednesday, then there's something seriously wrong with one's life.  Yes, a bit of time with the game console can be relaxing for some, but so can drugs and alcohol or a morning cigarette and coffee.  Somehow I don't see the necessity to promote such addictive behavior nor should the leaders be leading in that direction.

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Phone compasses do not work as well as a good magnetic compass. Apps showing you how to tie a knot are no substitute for learning with a real rope and someone guiding you. Leaders are built when other scouts help those requiring the help. If they have an app to teach them birds or knots or nature or first aid, we rob our other scouts of a chance to teach and lead.

 

One thing we are missing here is that these kids are addicted to devices. While there may be reasons to use such devices, there are an equal number of reasons for them not to use them. The tie breaker in my mind are the lost opportunities for interaction and leadership, plus the continued addiction to such devices. 

 

I grew up with TV. My leaders did not. Does not mean I brought a TV with me to camp. That is a hollow argument in my opinion.

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This is a failure of the other parents and the adult leaders in my opinion, not to mention the camp staff for allowing youth to charge devices. If you prohibit them for everyone then no one has them. 

 

In my troop no one calls home either. The adults take any home sick scout to the trading post for ice cream and we chat.

 

Electronics usage is an addiction for many of these kids (and adults). Cutting the chord for a week is not that hard if you apply it to everyone.

 

 

Yeap!  100% agree.  Since I didn't go with my "Chartered" Troop I found out via Text one scout was getting home sick and that his dad kept calling to check on him...he had his phone with him!  I immediately told the SM to take the young mans phone and talk to dad about it.  No phones no problems

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Yeap!  100% agree.  Since I didn't go with my "Chartered" Troop I found out via Text one scout was getting home sick and that his dad kept calling to check on him...he had his phone with him!  I immediately told the SM to take the young mans phone and talk to dad about it.  No phones no problems

Found out via text?  ;)

 

We all use technology even when we go camping. Outings would be very different if we had to do things the way they do in Naked and Afraid. My boots have a nice Gore-Tex lining. My tent weighs a few pounds. My sleeping bag keeps me toasty in sub-zero temperatures. I have a camp chair that folds into the size of a small umbrella. Should we give all of these things up too?

 

Looking at how to tie a knot on an app is no different from carrying a book on how to tie knots. The knot is not going to tie itself. 

 

Here is the article that I read that made me change my mind. 

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I apologize to all if I have threadjacked this topic. I'll gladly delete my comments if requested.

 

OP, I still hope that your son has a good time at camp regardless. 

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Looking at how to tie a knot on an app is no different from carrying a book on how to tie knots. The knot is not going to tie itself. 

 

 

 

Why do you need to carry a (separate) book on how to tie knots?  Do you (k)not already know them?  There's only five: taut-line, timber, sheet-bend, bowline, clove.  I don't count the square knot or (two)half-hitch, because they should have learned that by heart as a Cub.

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The boys are allowed to bring the same electronic devices I do.  If it has to be plugged in for any reason it stays home.  It's a good lesson to learn that if one has the DT's by Tuesday or Wednesday, then there's something seriously wrong with one's life.  Yes, a bit of time with the game console can be relaxing for some, but so can drugs and alcohol or a morning cigarette and coffee.  Somehow I don't see the necessity to promote such addictive behavior nor should the leaders be leading in that direction.

I want to see you argue against this one. Scout has his technician class FCC license and wants to bring his ham radio. That is old school scouting. We even have an official Amature Radio Operator strip to wear on the sleeve now.

 

Everyone remember 300' Kudu? He had no problem with electronics. There is a video he posted here of his patrol hiking and all the boys had earbuds.

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Why do you need to carry a (separate) book on how to tie knots?  Do you (k)not already know them?  There's only five: taut-line, timber, sheet-bend, bowline, clove.  I don't count the square knot or (two)half-hitch, because they should have learned that by heart as a Cub.

well, perhaps a person wants to tie themselves a fancy paracord braided woggle in a new pattern they don't know.....

or, as I plan to do this weekend if I get some time (although not on a scout camp), I plan to make up some sort of paracord handle for my yeti low ball coffee mug.  Maybe I'll do a simple fishtailbraid, or perhaps a tripple spanish wrap.... I dunno.... but I figure I'll be looking online for muse and instruction.

Edited by blw2

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I still think we discount the concept that these kids, and many adults, are simply addicted to technology. Need to calm yourself at bed time? Read your handbook or another book. Bored? Talk to a friend or make a new one. Home sick? Involve yourself in the many activities that summer camp has to offer. Learn a new skill. Teach a new skill. If you were at STEM camp I could see turning a blind eye to technology, but this isn't the case. When kids are addicted to something they need help. Giving them their "fix" is not the answer. We are talking about 5 days without Minecraft, certainly that's not a problem, is it?

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Why do you need to carry a (separate) book on how to tie knots?  Do you (k)not already know them?  There's only five: taut-line, timber, sheet-bend, bowline, clove.  I don't count the square knot or (two)half-hitch, because they should have learned that by heart as a Cub.

If you are satisfied with those, that's fine.  However, some like to learn knots beyond the minimum. The books or apps are good for learning more esoteric knots. My oldest son is a knot guy. He learned to do the monkey's fist and other knots that aren't scout required.

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I apologize to all if I have threadjacked this topic. I'll gladly delete my comments if requested.

 

OP, I still hope that your son has a good time at camp regardless. 

 

It seems like every conversation turns controversial at some point, so by all means follow those rabbit trails!

 

Besides, I have not been here that long, but long enough to know mentioning tech use at camp would not be completely benign....

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I still think we discount the concept that these kids, and many adults, are simply addicted to technology. Need to calm yourself at bed time? Read your handbook or another book. Bored? Talk to a friend or make a new one. Home sick? Involve yourself in the many activities that summer camp has to offer. Learn a new skill. Teach a new skill. If you were at STEM camp I could see turning a blind eye to technology, but this isn't the case. When kids are addicted to something they need help. Giving them their "fix" is not the answer. We are talking about 5 days without Minecraft, certainly that's not a problem, is it?

I doubt if anyone here would argue directly against your points....

but as others have pointed out, that printed book you write about was once a new fangled and probably considered an unnecessary technology.  Perhaps looked on as evil even....

and bseides, you can now get most books in a digital format.  That is now the way many people consume the written word.... and there really isn't anything wrong with that.

 

To me the bigger point is to step back and honestly evaluate the "why" behind our opposition to a thing.

 

In this case, me thinks it's really more about a desire to get the attention focused on the outdoor world, and the people we are with.

so, perhaps the focus needs to be placed there, rather than on the "thing"

and as the articl that was linked to earlier points out, they aint going away!

 

People have probably thinking since the beginning, that things were better "back in my day".   But does that really make it so?  

No, I think it doesn't... just different.

Ugh, my kids will never learn the Dewey decimal system....

well, so what?

I'll bet at some point way back in time there were folks balking at this new waste of time they were teaching the kids in school, called the Dewey decimal system.....

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