Jump to content
shaner

Trouble collecting required forms

Recommended Posts

An observation if one were to use the 99% / 1% issue assumptions (and I'm not advocating that) - 22,507 youth would fall into that 1% in the traditional program.   (Report to the Nation figures used).  

Also might want to review the first FAQ about the AHMR

Q. Why does the BSA require all participants to have an Annual Health and Medical Record? 
A.
 The AMHR serves many purposes. Completing a health history promotes health awareness, collects necessary data, and provides medical professionals critical information needed to treat a patient in the event of an illness or injury. It also provides emergency contact information.

Poor health and/or lack of awareness of risk factors have led to disabling injuries, illnesses, and even fatalities. Because we care about our participants' health and safety, the Boy Scouts of America has produced and required use of standardized annual health and medical information since at least the 1930s.


The medical record is used to prepare for high-adventure activities and increased physical activity. In some cases, it is used to review participants' readiness for gatherings like the national Scout jamboree and other specialized activities.

Because many states regulate the camping industry, the Annual Health and Medical Record also serves as a tool that enables councils to operate day and resident camps and adhere to BSA and state requirements. The Boys Scouts of America's Annual Health and Medical Record provides a standardized mechanism that can be used by members in all 50 states.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We had a parent fill out their son's form as usual. They didn't really sit down and think through the child's health, they just completed the form and turned it in. Turns out the young man was allergic to molds and had previously been diagnosed with asthma. He had a severe reaction on a trip many hours from home where he was nearly anaphylactic. Thanks to our EMT/ASM he was given some Benadryl and later Albuterol via a portable nebulizer we happen to carry and he was all better. When we got back home his parents were all like, "Oh yeah, I guess I should have put that on his form." This is why we review each med form, color code them and make sure the adults know such things. It helps having medical professionals on staff that can help organize these things. And we do read the med forms.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Q. Why does the BSA require all participants to have an Annual Health and Medical Record? 

A. The AMHR serves many purposes. Completing a health history promotes health awareness, collects necessary data, and provides medical professionals critical information needed to treat a patient in the event of an illness or injury. It also provides emergency contact information.

 

 

Yah, sure, we need emergency contact information and relevant health history.   I'm not convinced it helps EMS or ER staff that much, because their protocols are to take a history themselves, eh?  Most folks comin' into an ER don't have forms stapled to their jackets, and yeh have to set treatment and intake protocols for da norm, eh?  For kids, they're goin' to call family fairly early on.  In what circumstances do yeh imagine the form will substantively affect treatment and outcome?

 

 

 

Poor health and/or lack of awareness of risk factors have led to disabling injuries, illnesses, and even fatalities.

 

 

Yah, sure, we've got a whole mess of us adults who are growin' old and feeble, and some young lads who are obese.   Everyone in da outdoor industry deals with this at some level, eh?   Yet they manage to take folks whitewater raftin' and skydivin' and whatnot without demandin' full health histories and physicals. ;)   Besides, for da 1% of the time, we aren't even sure we're gettin' an accurate report, eh?  I know I've been on trips or at camp where adults revealed things like a heart condition (and meds) that weren't on his health history or physical. :p

 

Do yeh have any data on whether da effort has meaningfully improved annual Philmont medical evacuations and fatalities?   Or across all da national HA bases?

 

Because many states regulate the camping industry, the Annual Health and Medical Record also serves as a tool that enables councils to operate day and resident camps and adhere to BSA and state requirements. The Boys Scouts of America's Annual Health and Medical Record provides a standardized mechanism that can be used by members in all 50 states.

 

 

Yah, this is a real issue, eh?  The morass of law and regulation across the land for long-term resident camps is a mess.  Sometime we have to live with that, eh?  Other times it would be nice to see us lobbyin' to make those statutes a bit more sane.   We're also caught up a bit by da fact that activity physicals have become a pseudo standard of care in some ways, driven by da industry.  

 

I'm not sure I'm convinced, though, that it makes sense for da entire country to do somethin' because one state's camping regulations require it.   Havin' a "standardized mechanism" across all 50 states strikes me as a bug, rather than a feature.  Medical systems, insurance, regulation all vary by state, and we'd be offerin' better service to our councils and our units if we were to tailor things sometimes.  At least allowin' camps in more permissive regulatory environments to be more permissive would help 'em compete with da other camps in their area.

 

[furry critter now runnin' for cover as @@RichardB imagines tryin' to deal with helpin' 50 states with customized approaches... :D   It's fun to be gleefully trollin' H&S!]

 

Beavah

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RichardB just wants furry critter to not discount scope of his call for multiple approaches or the saves that happen daily when bad things are caught pre-participation......

 

Assures critters everywhere latest revision to AHMR started from the whys presented. Comments always appreciated for next revisions to AHMR (sometime post 2019 WSJ)

 

RichardB

 

PS: Health providers across America call for beaver pelts.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We had a parent fill out their son's form as usual. They didn't really sit down and think through the child's health, they just completed the form and turned it in. Turns out the young man was allergic to molds and had previously been diagnosed with asthma. He had a severe reaction on a trip many hours from home where he was nearly anaphylactic. Thanks to our EMT/ASM he was given some Benadryl and later Albuterol via a portable nebulizer we happen to carry and he was all better. When we got back home his parents were all like, "Oh yeah, I guess I should have put that on his form." This is why we review each med form, color code them and make sure the adults know such things. It helps having medical professionals on staff that can help organize these things. And we do read the med forms.

You "just happen to carry" albuterol (a controlled prescription drug) and a nebulizer? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You "just happen to carry" albuterol (a controlled prescription drug) and a nebulizer? 

 

We carry it for two Scouts that require it. The EMT on our team gave it to the Scout with the parent's consent. It was either that or a very expensive trip to the ER since they did not have insurance that covered such things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having the correct med form, carefully and correctly filled out and current insurance information is a lot of work BUT really pays off when it hits the fan. (My worst case I have been involved in (so far) is some amputated digits. The training and procedures DID payoff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pardon me if this is repetitive, but the troop I was with for 25 years had only one way to 'sign up" for Summer Camp.  The name went on the list only when the paperwork and check were received.  Until then, you were not regarded as going to camp.  This was announced in a letter about Summer Camp that went out in late January, and in the monthly newsletter thereafter.  It was also announced with increasing frequency at troop meetings until the deadline passed.  "Sorry, we didn't know you wanted Johnny to go so no place was made for him.  Maybe if someone drops out . . . ."

 

Sadly, the troop I am with now allows you to "sign up" and then someone chases after the papers and money.  They also cannot seem to get gear back that is checked out.

 

I suppose that one can keep using the same practices and expect to get different results.  :huh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just got back last week from a week at the Philmont Training Center.  My wife happened to cut her leg on a nail sticking out of the platform the tent was on.  Instead of taking her medical history at the infirmary, they pulled out her medical form.  Had we been back at home, the ER would have taken a medical history when she came in.  I'm not convinced that the 200 hours spent by Philmont Training Center participants that week filling out their forms was better than the one hour (or less) she would have spent filling out the info at the ER upon intake.

 

But wait, I'm sure someone will jump in and say, "What if she was unconscious?"  Well, if there was some piece of information on her medical form that was so important that it would have effected her treatment, I'm pretty sure she should have been wearing a medical alert bracelet.

 

As for the medical form clearing participants before they arrive at camp... there was one woman at the PTC while I was there who was supposed to be on a Trek with her troop but failed the medical recheck at camp and wasn't allowed to go into the back country.  She was diverted to the PTC for the week instead.  I wonder how often something like that happens.

 

Frankly, this isn't a BSA problem, it's a national healthcare issue.  I know we've all filled out forms just like the BSA medical form time and time again as we visit a new practitioner.  The ironic thing is the practitioners probably have better data than whatever we can pull from the recesses of our minds.  Maybe someday our records will all be digital (they mostly already are) and accessible (this is the ongoing headache) so that we won't have to fill out stupid forms again and again and again.

Edited by meyerc13
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I call them arbitrary deadlines when you look at the repercussions and who's on the late list.  If the kid can still go or there is a way to make it happen, then it's arbitrary.  Call it a preferred date.  It's just not a deadline.  

 

The funny one is when I've seen these deadlines and who's missed the deadline.  It's usually the scoutmaster and his kid; the camp coordinator and his kid; other key leaders and their kids.  I always enjoy it when the person publishing the date misses the date too.  

I will fess up to this. I usually miss the deadline to turn in forms but simply because I am usually going on the trip and I can fill one out on the spot for myself and my own kids. This year I am stepping back some in order to "let other parents 'step up.'"  So I'm struggling a bit with having all the forms. 

 

We also struggled with med forms in the past. What we do in our troop now is keep a master binder with all the med forms. We request new A & B at re-charter/cross over. As they are needed for different camp outs, the committee chair makes copies for the ones going to each camp out and handed to the SM/ASM in a separate binder. Everyone is informed that if there is no Form C by the time we leave, they will not be able to make the trip to summer camp. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had this happen often. One time at camp I was called to the office with an issue with the paperwork. The dad forgot to get part C signed, and it was overlooked in the haste of leaving. He turned it in on the day we left for camp.

I had the duty to call him and inform him we needed the form signed, or be here Tuesday night to pick up his son!

That's the repercussion!!! And no refunds!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My guess is that this troop has spent a lot of time boring everyone with announcements and threats in the past about deadlines.  No one pays attention because it is like all the popcorn sales announcements in the fall.

 

  I'll bet you have organizational skills and a talent with that stuff.  If you choose to do it next year: Enlist a friend, and implement some of the changes recommended above, I think you would enjoy your volunteer task more.  I personally would not spend the winter making announcements, talking about how terrible it was before, talking about how unappreciated and disrespected you as a volunteer were, and talking about how to do it differently.  I would just do it (perhaps let the SM in on the plan).  Quietly and firmly.  The "Czars of the Paperwork" have spoken  (friend remember?).

 

But with the private goal that you every scout who wants to go, to go to camp, messed up parents or not.  Because after all, it really isn't about the adults.

 

Thanks for your service.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tomorrow evening is my last meeting time set up for collecting our forms since I will be getting them pre screened on Tuesday (our boys will report to camp Sunday).

I am happy to report that only one scout has not turned in his forms and I got an email saying that he will be having his physical Monday morning.......

After 4 years of being in charge of the paperwork, word has apparently gotten around that I know what I am talking about when it comes to knowing what the camp and the state require on the medical forms.  Finally.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×