Chasing Checkmarks

[Scoutmaster613 12]

OK, 

 

I am a new scoutmaster for a new troop. Brand new as we only started with 5 scouts so its been a painful journey(but worth it). 3 years later we have 3 patrols with 30+ active scouts.

 

We had a new patrol that just crossed over and after 1 year I am seeing a trend of the SA "chasing checkmarks" The boys are advancing in a way that I am not used to as it seems they are completing the requirements but not retaining most of the information or learning anything new or that would add to their program as it's "not in the book". I ask the SA to teach them in a proper way that they will learn and retain the knowledge like learning where and how to tie a simple rain fly, then i get the excuse "its not a requirement". Also 1st class learn to navigate at day and night with no compass. He taught them the stick and watch method for the day time, and I look at the scouts and 2 out of the 13 have watches. So they share the watches between 13 scouts so they can "demonstrate" how to complete the requirement. Then at night they all point to the north star. No other methods taught. 

 

Per the star, life and eagle ranks, these can be completed in 1 yr 4 months so on that time line his scouts can eagle out in 2 yrs 4 months and per "the book" thats allowable. 

 

Please no hate mail, I am "doing my best"

 

LOL

 

Ed

[Stosh 3452]

There are troops that are Eagle Mill advancement oriented and then there are those that are not.    It's easier and far less hassles from the parents to do the Eagle Mill route.  But if one follows BSA policy, boy led, patrol method does take longer and will instill skills longer than a "once and done" check mark on a piece of paper.

 

I'm in my 2nd year of a new troop and I've gone from 5 registered last year to 10 this year.  A lot of S->FC training, quite a bit of which is adult led.  I have only 2 boys out of 10 that are TF, the rest newbies.  My TF scouts are "teaching" the new boys and doing fairly well.  An adult could do it a lot better and quite a bit faster.  But that's not what the program is all about.

[qwazse 4342]

Congratulations on the boom in growth. It's a good problem to have.

 

First, do not honor any ASM signatures on scout skills. Only SPLs, Instructors, and PLs who you have personally trained in how you want those skills to be demonstrated should be signing off.

 

Secondly, IMHO, it's the ASM job is to "assist" the SM. If he isn't teaching at the level you expect, he's not assisting. Mention this to the CC and get this guy retrained to your liking.

 

Thirdly, on every campout, assign these boys a site that they have to hike to, that you have designated on a map. Give them tarps and rope for shelter. Cache the ingredients for cracker barrel at a heading some distance from the campsite. After dark give the boys that heading and tell them they are to navigate to that location for snack. Coordinate this with the SPL/PL's, not the adults!

 

In other words, if they claim to have mastered a requirement, expect them to perform it. If they can't, ask to revise their books accordingly. Carry white-out.

Edited June 10, 2016 by qwazse

[Beavah 205]

Yah, nice job on da new troop startup so far, @Mr Ed T24!   Sounds like yeh have good things going on.

 

One of your roles as Scoutmaster is Keeper of the Flame, eh?   The fellow who is in charge of having vision and movin' people toward action on that vision.   Yeh have to speak it often, yeh have to do some minor corrections here and there to keep folks rowing together, and yeh have to find da right people to help and the right role for each person.

 

Any of us long-timers will tell you that parents who are coming out of Cub Scouts need to be deprogrammed, eh?   Personally, I don't think yeh should ever make 'em ASMs right away.  Better to use 'em as MCs until they get the hang of da program and their son finds his feet.    Cub Scout parents naturally want to continue da Cub Scout model of Do Your Best and advance (easily) together, rather than the Boy Scout model of develop real skills, and take as long as yeh need to advance individually.

 

So now yeh have to make a decision, eh?  Is your ASM open to learning, or is he one of those book-smart fellows who went to one training session and now mutters "don't add to the requirements" in his sleep?   If he's open to learning, then you (and your SPL, and ASPL, and CC, and Advancement Chair) take the fellow in hand and slowly retrain him.   Do some teaching together.   Have him participate as a learner in a MB effort that shows real counseling, then have him participate as a junior instructor, then let him do some instructin' where you shadow and give him feedback.

 

If your ASM isn't open to learning, then it's time to find a committee role for him out of the way.   Maybe managing recharter paperwork?  Or wrangling drivers?

 

Goin' forward, get your committee and COR on board with da notion that nobody just gets to be an ASM.   ASMs need to be carefully vetted and chosen, eh?  Preferably after yeh have known 'em and seen 'em work with kids for a bit.

 

As Scoutmaster, you get to decide who signs off on requirements, eh?  If yeh don't like where that's goin', it's just fine to pull it in tighter.   Use the boys rather than the adults for S-T-2-1.   As Scoutmaster, you get to decide who does the instructing, eh?  If yeh don't think someone's doin' a good job, find someone else.  Use the boys rather than the adults where you can.

 

In the end, if yeh want some covering fire, yeh can use da Committee Members on a BOR to give the ASM feedback.   "Billy said that he never really learned how to light a stove, he just did it once.  We really let Billy down, because he's going to need that skill to be capable and safe.   Go back and make sure he's really learned it (and all his other skills), Mr. ASM."

 

Your vision is right, and your heart is right, @Mr Ed.   Now go do what yeh have to do for the boys.

 

Beavah

 

------

 

A Boy Scout Badge represents what a scout is able to do; it is not a reward for what he has done.  -Boy Scouts of America

[qwazse 4342]

...

As Scoutmaster, you get to decide who signs off on requirements, eh?  If yeh don't like where that's goin', it's just fine to pull it in tighter.   Use the boys rather than the adults for S-T-2-1.   As Scoutmaster, you get to decide who does the instructing, eh?  If yeh don't think someone's doin' a good job, find someone else.  Use the boys rather than the adults where you can.

...

This was the "Tuesday Talkback" on Bryan on Scouting this week: http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2016/06/09/can-sign-off-boy-scout-requirements/

 

There, he refers to this scout-cast http://www.scouting.org/filestore/scoutcast/resources/201601_6/SC_JUNE_Who_Can_Sign_Requirements.pdf (I like transcripts, others might prefer the audio available by following the other link.)

 

You might want to refer your committee to that link before bringing up any discussion.

Edited June 10, 2016 by qwazse

[Hedgehog 334]

Now is the time to start to build a boy-led troop.  The boys should be the ones teaching the skills and the boys should be the ones signing off on the requirements.  You really don't learn something until you either do it repeatedly or have to teach it.  

 

In our troop it is the Troop Guide, the APLs and the PLs that are permitted to sign off for Scout through First Class.  The Scoutmaster signs off on Star, Life and Eagle.  The boys should be encouraged to do activities that practice scout skills at their weekly meetings.  

 

Have a contest to see who can build a tripod the quickest and hang a dutch oven from it or who can lash together a ladder to reach some candy put just out of reach.

 

Have the boys camp in a separate campsite from the adults.  Have the do everything independently.  The ASMs are there for health and safety.  The SM should be coaching the SPL who is mentoring the PLs who are (as Stosh puts it so well) charged with taking care of the boys in their patrol.  

[qwazse 4342]

The broader issue as far as training is concerned: who in the district has taught your leaders?

Are your leaders going to roundtable? Are the boys seeing how other troops do things from time to time?

 

This is a similar problem as the one in education where students are taught to the test. My most annoying dialogue as a parent:

"But, Dad, that won't be on the test!"

"But it will be in real life."

 

Your bottom line: you want each boy trained to the pinnacle scouting experience of hiking and camping independently with his mates.

[blw2 433]

I have noticed the similar thing.  stuff just not done to a level of retention.

 

In a similar vain, i was just looking at something yesterday in regards to my son and the summer camp we just returned from....

another Committee member was riding back with me, and checking through the paperwork we got from camp re. completions....

so...

My son and another new scout went through a first year scout program, and they worked on a bunch of the rank requirements + a few merit badges.

the merit badges completed included 1st aid and swimming

so in looking through the completed requirements, we were scratching our heads because the camp did not report the swimming and 1st aid requirements as done.... for TF/SC/FC

puzzling, since I'm fairly certain that they would have at least completed most of those rank requirements in those MB classes.

 

While in my thinking the spirit of it might be that they repeat these requirements for each rank to better set these skills, that is not what it says.... so in my thinking these new boys get a big chunk of three ranks done with two merit badges.  I'm looking forward to seeing how the SM handles it.

[Hedgehog 334]

While in my thinking the spirit of it might be that they repeat these requirements for each rank to better set these skills, that is not what it says.... so in my thinking these new boys get a big chunk of three ranks done with two merit badges.  I'm looking forward to seeing how the SM handles it.

 

 

Generally, the merit badge requirements will specify if something done for rank advancement can count for the badge.  For example, the 5 mile hike for advancement specifically counts toward the Hiking merit badge.  The nights camping for advancement specifically count for the Camping merit badge.  The meals cooked for advancement specifically DON"T count for the Cooking merit badge.  If I correctly recall the First Aid merit badge says you have to complete the Tenderfoot through First Class First aid requirements, so it counts twice.  I don't remember anything saying that the Tenderfoot through First Class requirements for swimming can't count toward the Swimming merit badge.  My rule is that if rank requirements or merit badge don't say otherwise, it can count for both.

[MrBob 96]

Re: swimming, I'll accept a current "buddy tag" from summer camp showing the boy completed the BSA swim test as proof of 1st class requirement 6a (blue) or 2nd class requirement 5b (red), and I'd sign off the rest as appropriate after a discussion with the Scout.

 

Re: first aid, the 1st requirement is to satisfy your counselor that you have current knowledge of all first aid requirements for T21.  Unless I was the boys First Aid MB counselor, I would not sign off on the first aid requirements until after the Scout demonstrated them to MY satisfaction (or to the satisfaction of the person(s) delegated to sign-off)

 

 

Part of that is that I know the guys who run aquatics at the camp we go to, and I know they won't mark a Scout as blue or red unless its legitimate - for safety/liability reasons - and because the testing is done one-on-one.  First Aid is taught as a "group", so I don't have quite as much faith.  I'll accept the signed blue card, because those are the rules.  But there is no rule saying I have to blindly accept the blue card's implied satisfaction of rank requirements.

Edited June 21, 2016 by MrBob