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heat4212

Something to give in place of badge at graduation?

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All this complaining about how sports and band and any other activity requires perfect attendance, yet you insist on perfect attendance to earn the Wolf Rank. If a cub scout does his best to complete the Tiger Rank, even if he's missed a couple months of meetings to play a sport (something we should encourage, not force a choice),then I see no problem awarding him the rank.

 

Where to begin:

 

First, I don't recall anyone saying you had to have perfect attendance at Scout meetings nor for ranks.

 

Second, the discussion around "doing your best" was not to award a rank for simply "trying" some of the requirements, but rather to do your best at ALL of the requirements.

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I doubt anyone here cares about "perfect attendance" at Den meetings.  As long as all the requirements have been completed, what's the issue?

 

We are going in circles on this topic.  As I explained earlier, there are some Adventure requirements that, as written, would mean that a boy who misses a meeting doesn't advance.  One example is the Grin and Bear It Adventure.  If the boy misses the Cub Scout Carnival, too bad, so sad, you can't advance.

 

Well, guess what, this may be heresy to some, but when that happens (not if, because we all know that it has happened and will happen every year in Packs across our nation) I'm going to come up with an alternate way for the boy to earn his badge, even though the poor planning and editing in the new requirements didn't leave us with an option that doesn't require modifying the requirements ourselves.

 

If you don't believe me, go search the new requirements for the number of times "with your den" is used without "or family" appended.  I just did a quick search, and I came up with 77 'with your den' that aren't followed by the word 'or'.  Yet 34 instances have "or family" or some variation of that.  I understand that we want boys to experience Cub Scouting with a den, but when a boy misses a meeting it forces us to either withhold advancement or tweak the requirements.  When reasonable leaders say they adjust the requirements as needed because the standard in Cub Scouting is "Do Your Best,"  then everyone here jumps on them with "Well, I would never do that!  Every boy must complete every requirement or they don't advance."  I'm sorry, but that type of attitude is taking the fun out of Cub Scouting. 

 

We should be looking for ways to make it possible for Cub Scouts to advance if they have done their best, which may mean substituting or modifying requirements as necessary due to illness or personal circumstances.  With the way the new requirements are written, the BSA left us with little choice but to modify them because many can't be completed as written if a boy is sick and misses a den meeting.

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Krampus, I understand we disagree on this topic. Nothing I say will change your mind, and you aren't going to change mine, so there isn't anything left. In my view, a Cub Scout who does their best to complete their Tiger/Wolf/Bear rank should receive it at the end of the year with their Den, regardless if they've completed every step for every Adventure Loop. And I want to make sure anyone who reads this topic knows there are valid reasons for that, even if there are other Scouters here who will mock and ridicule people who think differently.

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Krampus, I understand we disagree on this topic. Nothing I say will change your mind, and you aren't going to change mine, so there isn't anything left. In my view, a Cub Scout who does their best to complete their Tiger/Wolf/Bear rank should receive it at the end of the year with their Den, regardless if they've completed every step for every Adventure Loop. And I want to make sure anyone who reads this topic knows there are valid reasons for that, even if there are other Scouters here who will mock and ridicule people who think differently.

 

I think people who read what you've written understand that you will award a rank even if a Scout did 70% of the requirements. 

 

I think people will understand where those who disagree with you stand, that -- as long as you complete ALL of the requirements, and not just 70% and do your best -- they would award the Scout the rank.

 

I think everyone knows that other activities get in the way sometimes, but where we differ is in awarding something to someone who didn't complete all the requirements versus compelling them to complete the requirements.

 

Don't worry, I think your position is pretty clear. What wasn't clear was you ascribing to those who disagree with you the notion that we require 100% attendance. That was not true and needed clarification. 

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Don't worry, I think your position is pretty clear. What wasn't clear was you ascribing to those who disagree with you the notion that we require 100% attendance. That was not true and needed clarification. 

 

Ok, so long as we are clearing things up, what are the options for Cub Scouts that miss activities completed by the rest of their den?  As far as I can see, we can either repeat the activities in the Den setting (which will discourage/bore other boys), hold a "make up" Den meeting/activity, which can be fun for the camping/cooking/hiking requirements, but not necessarily workable for all the trips required for Bear.  Or you can assign it as "homework".

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Ok, so long as we are clearing things up, what are the options for Cub Scouts that miss activities completed by the rest of their den?  As far as I can see, we can either repeat the activities in the Den setting (which will discourage/bore other boys), hold a "make up" Den meeting/activity, which can be fun for the camping/cooking/hiking requirements, but not necessarily workable for all the trips required for Bear.  Or you can assign it as "homework".

 

You answered your own question. There are options.

 

And you can split your meeting so that the boys who DID do the work maybe get a special treat or something, while the boys who are there to make up the work have to do the work.

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Right now I have 9 boys working on their AOL requirements.  Next Tuesday evening those that have completed the requirements will receive the award.  If they are +10 years of age, they will cross over into the troop.  If they are +11 years old they will cross over into the troop, If they are <11 and did not complete the requirements, they will not get the AOL at that time, nor will they cross over, but we will continue to work with them until they do.  The only thing that is of concern is the timing of summer camp.  They cannot go to summer camp <11 and no AOL.  The burden has been given to the parents to pick up the slack and work with us on this issue.  We will hold true to the intent of the requirements.  If a boy puts in a vague illogical answer to the question, he'll get credit for doing his best.  If he leaves it blank, he will not get credit for it.

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I don't think any of you really answered meyerc13's question re: the Cub Scout carnival. This is the kind of event that you can't just repeat or make-up. So... you are saying, too bad, no Bear rank for any scout that misses the carnival? No exceptions?

 

Or do you think it's okay for his parents to have a backyard carnival? Or for him to sub in his school's carnival? The book is pretty clear that it will be with "your den" "at a special event" (p. 98). And BTW, attending the carnival is required to complete Grin and Bear it Requirements 2, 3 & 4. So if he misses, he will only have 40% of that adventure completed with no way to make it up. 

 

I personally don't think there should be any requirements that can't be made up with family if they miss.  

Edited by heat4212

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What is the point of a Cub Scout Carnival anyway? Seems really lame to me.

 

Agreed. But it is a required adventure now, not an elective. Not a small part of another adventure, a whole adventure all by itself (including the prep work). Not only that, it forces the hand of the rest of the Pack. The Bears are supposed to do it a special event and work with younger scouts (so we have to incorporate it into B&G, camping, or a recruitment event... which usually are hard enough to pull off without adding more to them). 

 

In my Pack our Bear den leader just ignored this requirement. He never planned for it, he never mentioned it, and then quit the Pack in April. None of the other leaders stepped up to intervene. The other Bear parent was brand new and didn't understand that all opportunities to get this done had passed. The other leaders could barely manage to get their own dens' requirements finished up. My husband was Web I leader and by April I was scrambling over getting the Scouting requirements done with our Web II (who went without a leader the whole year because we used to do Web I and II together and realized too late that wasn't going to work anymore with the new program). 

 

It just so happens my homeschool co-op puts on a little "carnival" every Halloween. Older kids helping younger kids has always been a part of that (and my Bear's little brother was there who was a Wolf). Each family is responsible for setting up and leading a game, so he helped me with that. In April once I realized we were screwed on the Cub Scout carnival I had him make an award for a teacher at co-op, we talked about how we could do better next year, played a challenge game as a family, and I signed it off on the requirements.

 

So I am just curious if anyone thinks I made a wrong decision and allowed my son to get his Bear rank (or "award" if you must) when he didn't deserve it.

 

If you think what I did was okay, then all the preaching that has been going on in this post goes out the window. If you think my son should have been denied his Bear badge because I didn't follow the letter of the law (or handbook)... well then I am just glad you have no influence over my kids or our Pack because he did his best to complete the requirement under impossible circumstances and how can we expect an 8 year old to do any better?

 

Just to be clear, here are the requirements for Grin and Bear It:

 

Adventure Requirements:

  1. Play a challenge game or initiative game with the members of your den. Take part in a reflection after the game.
  2. Working with the members of your den, organize a Cub Scout carnival and lead it at a special event.
  3. Help younger Cub Scouts take part in one of the events at the Cub Scout carnival.
  4. After the Cub Scout carnival, discuss with the members of your den and your den leader what went well, what could be done better, and how everyone worked together to make the event a success.
  5. Make and present an award to one of the adults who helped you organize the activities at the Cub Scout carnival.

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Adventure Requirements:

  1. Play a challenge game or initiative game with the members of your den. Take part in a reflection after the game.
  2. Working with the members of your den, organize a Cub Scout carnival and lead it at a special event.
  3. Help younger Cub Scouts take part in one of the events at the Cub Scout carnival.
  4. After the Cub Scout carnival, discuss with the members of your den and your den leader what went well, what could be done better, and how everyone worked together to make the event a success.
  5. Make and present an award to one of the adults who helped you organize the activities at the Cub Scout carnival.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but why is everyone waiting for council or district to put on some carnival?  It doesn't need to be anything extravagant, IT'S A DEN ACTIVITY FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!  A den can put on 3 or 4 of these, or whatever it takes to make it happen for all the boys.  Just because a boy or two missed the first carnival doesn't mean he can't get his award,  JUST DO ANOTHER CARNIVAL!  Need a special occasion?  Okay, Third Thursday of the month Den Potluck/Family Fun Carnival Event.  It's kind of a long title, but it'll work.

 

OMG (Oh, my goodness!) Having to do a second or third carnival of fun for the boys is probably going to cause irreparable harm to their psyche. 

 

Seriously people, you're over thinking this.

Edited by Stosh

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OMG (Oh, my goodness!) Having to do a second or third carnival of fun for the boys is probably going to cause irreparable harm to their psyche. 

 

Seriously people, you're over thinking this.

 

But @@Stosh, it is hard to plan around all the stuff the boys are doing. It is easier to say they "tried" and just check the box, isn't it?

 

My biggest issue is that many folks wouldn't want to miss a soccer or baseball practice if it meant playing in the "big game", but they don't think twice about missing something important for a scout rank advancement.

 

Sick and they miss? Different story. Picks sports over Scouts, we know where the priorities lie.

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It's May 28th. The carnival didn't happen. I am a parent, not a den leader. So you are seriously saying our Bears are just out of luck and there is nothing they can do about it? Too bad boys, your leader quit, your parents can't help, no badges!

 

You have admitted that you are not a Cub Scout leader or parent so why do you even troll this board? You do not know the new program, you argue semantics even when proven wrong, why don't you just let people who actually have experience with the new program offer useful advice and quit wasting our time.

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