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heat4212

Something to give in place of badge at graduation?

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Yes, these are the hard feelings one creates with a misinterpretation of the situation.

 

There is no such thing as "flunking" or need to hold back due to some ill conceived notion that these are an incremental ranking  of sorts.  IT IS NOT A RANK.  One does not take the next step up having achieved a step ranking, they merely turn one year older and move on to the next level of scouting.  The patch only represents how well they did their best while at that level.  They either earned the achievement award or they didn't.  You earned it?  Great, move on to the next level.  You didn't earn it?  Well, work harder at the next level and you might get the achievement award.

I really do not understand why you keep calling it an award. Just because the Scout is considered a Bear Scout, does not mean they are not that rank. If it was an award, then anyone can earn it at any age, [insert award like Outdoor Ethics]. The rank is something they earn, but move onto the next level to work on that rank. It is called a rank, because it is a rank. If you look at the online Scout store, they call it a rank (http://www.scoutstuff.org/bear-rank-emblem.html). So why is it that you are calling it an award?

 

OMG! My son just failed Bears and has to be held back a year?  How stupid is that?

 

In Boy Scouts they have rankings.  If that system was applied to Cub Scouting, the one boy who didn't attend meetings would be in Tigers, not Webelos.

 

Do the parents a favor, call it what it is.  It's an achievement award for doing the necessary requirements to earn it.  It does not signify any ranking above any other scout at that age.  

 

There are boys in Boy Scouting that do not aspire to be Eagles.  Not a problem.  They just progress to a certain rank and then just have fun, do their thing and that's it.

 

A Cub Scout can take a pass on Tiger award, the Wolf award, the Bear award, the Webelos award, and then work his tail off to earn the Arrow of Light award, the highest "rank"(?) in Cub Scouts?  How is that possible.  No, the Arrow of Light is the highest AWARD in Cub Scouting. 

It has been made very clear to everyone that the AOL is an award, not a rank. They are just called that because they are working on their AOL now that they are 5th graders. It is called the highest award because it is an award the Scouts can earn not a rank like the rest of the badges the kids earn.  

 

There's a whole different mind-set for the parent that thinks their son is flunking Cub Scouts, has had their child held back a year?  What's with that?  All because people are not identifying the system appropriately.

 

Your son did not earn the Wolf award.  That's unfortunate, next year he'll have a chance to earn his Bear award. 

 

(he is a younger scout who got held back during Scouts).   This is a major travesty in my book.  Even if a boy gets held back in school, he still, by age, moves on in Scouting!  These uninformed Cub leaders have just cut a year off this boy's chances at Eagle in Boy Scouts.  I would tell the parents that their son get in his age appropriate Cub program, at least work hard on the AOL and join Boy Scouts during his 10th year of age or age 11 at the latest.  My guess is that this boy will soon find sports a lot more fun than putting up with Scouting.

The parents decided this. The DL said he can move on with them, but the mom said no. I personally believe they should stay, but the parent is set in her ways.

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We'll just have to agree to disagree. 

 

On the first day of a scout's life in Cub Scouting, he IS a Tiger (or Lion if that program is set up in your council).  He did nothing to earn that "rank", but simply showed up for the first den meeting.   He is given the Bobcat pin with the expectation he fulfill certain requirements.  Basically it is not an award, holds very little programmatic responsibility, but is cherished more than the other awards for some reason.  :)  So, anyway, HE IS A TIGER.  Over the course of the next few months of programming and working at the program he may be given the Tiger award at having done certain expectations for the award.  Whether he gets the award or not, he is still a TIGER.  The next year, HE IS A WOLF.... If he does certain tasks he may receive the Wolf award, but it changes nothing, he is still a WOLF.  See the pattern?  One must also take into consideration that a boy coming into the Cub Scout program gets the Bobcat pin just like every other scout, but you go into the age appropriate level of Cub Scouts, so you may be starting out at a BEAR Scout working towards your Bear award.  One cannot go back to pick up Lion, Tiger or Wolf. the way the system would work if it were the Boy Scout model of rankings.

 

Now switch gears over to Boy Scouts.  The first day of Boy Scouts he is nothing.  So he stays nothing until he has fulfilled the requirements for advancement rank to that of SCOUT.  Now he is a SCOUT.  He does the next set of requirements AND THEN he becomes a TENDERFOOT.  Up until then he is still a SCOUT.  If the boy decides not to do any of the other requirements he will age out at 18 a TENDERFOOT Scout.  That's the highest rank he attained.

 

One can call it by any name they wish, rank, award, whatever, make up a name it doesn't matter.  Rank starts at the bottom and works it's way up to the top SCOUT -> EAGLE in Boy Scouts.  That's not the system in Cub Scouts.  To say it is is misleading.

 

One has to be careful with parents made unilateral decisions like this.  A parent can't just decide that because it will look good on his college application and job resume that he start at Webelos age and "earn" the Lion, Tiger, Wolf, Bear, "ranks" too.  The program is not set up that way.  In Boy Scouts, regardless of your age, everyone starts at the SCOUT rank.

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@@Stosh - that makes sense...I can see how it can be either one. I see it as a rank, some of you see it as an award.

 

We'll just have to agree to disagree. 

agree....

 

:D

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Our Pack recently celebrated its 75th Anniversary, and as part of that process I acquired Cub Scout handbooks from the year our Pack was founded (1940).  Reading those was a very eye opening experience.  In addition to learning that boxing was once considered an important Cub Scout Skill to learn (clearly the risk management team hadn't come into being yet!), it was interesting to see that back then you could complete requirements for earlier ranks, no matter what age you joined Cub Scouts.  I have a later handbook that gave you the option - you can either go back and earn the earlier ranks, or start working on the Webelos requirements.

 

I wonder if it was still this way today if we'd lose as many kids as we do because of Sports.  I know for a fact that my Pack lost some boys because the parents made it an either/or between Sports and Scouts.  Why can't a boy participate in Sports during Sept-Oct, and Scouts from Nov-March, and then Sports again the Spring?  For many parents, they don't see that as an option because they know how difficult it would be to complete rank requirements in less than five months between their sons' sport seasons (tent camping in Wisconsin in those months isn't feasible for Cub Scouts under the G2SS).  They view rank advancement as the goal - not having fun.  Rank Advancement is important, but in my opinion it should never take priority over Cub Scouts being fun.

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The handbook calls it a rank.  The Guide to Advancement calls it a rank.  It is a rank, regardless of how you think that term should be used.

 

If a scout is held back a year in school, I would take the parent's lead in deciding if the boy should repeat a year in Cub Scouts.  If his current Den was together several years, maybe keep them together (if the boy is mentally and socially ready to continue.  There must be a reason he was held back).  But if the parents want his to repeat in a younger Den, I'd allow it.  The boy is going to continue in school with boys in the earlier year, and is closer to them developmentally.  It'd be an advantage for him socially to build and maintain friendships with the younger Den.

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I have 7 boys in my Web1 Patrol.  3 have completed the requirements for Webelos the other 4 have not, they have 1 week to get it complete.  It will not be awarded after than. 

I have 1 youth in my Den that has completed Tiger-Webelos.

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Why can't a boy participate in Sports during Sept-Oct, and Scouts from Nov-March, and then Sports again the Spring?  For many parents, they don't see that as an option because they know how difficult it would be to complete rank requirements in less than five months between their sons' sport seasons (tent camping in Wisconsin in those months isn't feasible for Cub Scouts under the G2SS). 

 

It almost is either/or, especially with competitive ball.  I have one of my Web's hasn't complete his last two "ranks" Bear and Webelos because of baseball.

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It almost is either/or, especially with competitive ball.  I have one of my Web's hasn't complete his last two "ranks" Bear and Webelos because of baseball.

Baseball is year round now. In the winter they just practice skills inside. There is no way I would put up with 3-4 games a week as a parent.

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I have 7 boys in my Web1 Patrol.  3 have completed the requirements for Webelos the other 4 have not, they have 1 week to get it complete.  It will not be awarded after than. 

I have 1 youth in my Den that has completed Tiger-Webelos.

Why one week? When does the school year end where you are? Ours does not end till June 17th, so we are giving Scouts that much time to do the electives they want in the previous rank.

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Baseball is year round now. In the winter they just practice skills inside. There is no way I would put up with 3-4 games a week as a parent.

Baseball for kids is getting out of hand. We have a Scout who earned his Webelos, but has not been back since. He has practice every day, unless there is a game, which he has at least 2 a week...sometimes 3. I get you want your kid to learn a sport and if the kid likes the sport then let them do it, but come on...when do they get to be a kid if they are always playing baseball? Everyone has their own choice for their kids, just IMO that's a little crazy.

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Our school is wrapping up the school year on June 2nd.  Seniors are already done and graduations are starting all over the place now.

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Baseball for kids is getting out of hand. We have a Scout who earned his Webelos, but has not been back since. He has practice every day, unless there is a game, which he has at least 2 a week...sometimes 3. I get you want your kid to learn a sport and if the kid likes the sport then let them do it, but come on...when do they get to be a kid if they are always playing baseball? Everyone has their own choice for their kids, just IMO that's a little crazy.

Not just baseball. In my area EVERY sport is year around now. Nearly EVERY sport has gone from mostly rec leagues to mostly select leagues. No one is average anymore and EVERYONE is special so they are on select teams!! It is stupid. Parents are like sheep because they think their kid is the next Pele or Pete Rose. The level of play in the select leagues has gone WAY down hill. They may call it select but it is just rec with a super high price tag!!! A bad select soccer team will cost you $2000 a year to play. That same team cost you $150 for two season not 5 years ago!!!!!

 

School is just as crazy. Band, orchestra, choir, etc., all have mandatory weekend practices and such!!! Band? What the heck? Right? They "compete" too as young as 6th grade!!!!

 

I don't know where we went off the rails but we as a society just won't let kids be kids. Worse, we won't let them be AVERAGE!!!!

 

Which takes us back to badges-for-nothing, badges-for-trying rather than badges-for-completion.

 

Give that kid a trophy and a "promotion" to the select league!!! :rolleyes:

Edited by Krampus

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@@Krampus. IMHO it is college sports scholarships that took us off the rails. There are very few academic scholarships these days. A totally messed up situation.

 

My wife worked with a guy who got a full flight Bowling scholarship.

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All this complaining about how sports and band and any other activity requires perfect attendance, yet you insist on perfect attendance to earn the Wolf Rank. If a cub scout does his best to complete the Tiger Rank, even if he's missed a couple months of meetings to play a sport (something we should encourage, not force a choice),then I see no problem awarding him the rank.

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All this complaining about how sports and band and any other activity requires perfect attendance, yet you insist on perfect attendance to earn the Wolf Rank. If a cub scout does his best to complete the Tiger Rank, even if he's missed a couple months of meetings to play a sport (something we should encourage, not force a choice),then I see no problem awarding him the rank.

 

I doubt anyone here cares about "perfect attendance" at Den meetings.  As long as all the requirements have been completed, what's the issue?

 

Even a kid in sports seven days a week can crank out a requirement on a weekend with some help from his parent(s).

 

Missed a den meeting or three?  Guess you have some "homework" to do, right?

Edited by MrBob
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