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heat4212

Something to give in place of badge at graduation?

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I just disagree that we need to be sticklers for the Tiger/Wolf/Bear ranks.  For Webelos and into Boy Scouts, yes, raise your expectations.  But we're not coddling boys who don't do everything as asked. 

 

When boys are at the meetings, participating, doing their best, but happen to miss a meeting (and don't give me the "unreliable parent" speech, its bunk), or the meeting/event that was to cover a requirement gets canceled due to Den Leader emergency or other contingency, I don't feel a need to not recognize the boys for their great work the rest of the year. 

 

And since, unlike Boy Scouts, the Tigers and Wolves and Bears don't have until their 18th birthday to get their act together and earn their award, we need to draw a line, and that line is June 1st.

 

We still teach character, in stages, as the boys develop.  But that's not going to happen if they decide they hate scouts and don't come back next year.  Leadership, Patrol Method, and "Boy Led" are NOT Cub Scout concepts.  They grow into these things.

 

There is not and shouldn't be "homework" for Cub Scouts.  If you make it homework, boys will think it's school, and they're gone.

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@@Stosh. You could whittle some "L" slides for the boys who don't get the rank award. :)

 

A few years ago a old Scouter like you gave my oldest a tomahawk slide at a Camporee and he treasures that more than any other bling he has received.

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I may not have been in Cub Scouts as a WDL for 20+ years, but I do know that the program has not changed that much.

 

First of all there are NO RANKS in Cub Scouts.  There are AWARDS.  One does NOT NEED TO GET THE TIGER award before working on his Wolf award.  If the boy doesn't do the work he doesn't get the award.  It means nothing towards the next year of Cubbing.  Do better next year....

 

Secondly there is no such thing as GRADUATION in Cub Scouts.  They have a year to earn an award and if they don't they simply go on to the next year.  Nothing more, nothing less.  AOL is the highest AWARD in Cub Scouting, not the highest RANK. 

 

On ranks, according to scouting.org:

"On the advancement trail, a Cub Scout progresses from rank to rank, learning new skills as he goes. Each of the ranks and awards in Cub Scouting has its own requirements. As you advance through the ranks, the requirements get more challenging, to match the new skills and abilities you learn as you get older."

 

The word "rank" is used 62 times in my son's Webelos handbook -- the first reference being: "Your first rank badge -- Bobcat." It seems to me that Cub Scouts does indeed have ranks. 

 

On graduation, scouting.org states:

"Graduation or transition ceremonies can be used when boys transition from one phase of the program to another on the Scouting trail." According to the guide, Cub Scout Ceremonies for Dens and Packs, "Transition ceremonies mark the transitions for Cub Scouts from Tiger Cub to Wolf, Wolf to Bear, Bear to Webelos Scout, and Webelos Scout to Boy Scout. They encourage boys to make the step up to their next challenge on the Scouting trail." This official BSA publication has a very detailed program to follow for a Transition Ceremony that should occur at the end of the school year. This is the ceremony we are having. I am sorry if the word graduation offends you, but it's another way to say Transition Ceremony which also very clearly does exist in Cub Scouts. 

 

Also Scout Shop sells a Cub Scout Pack Graduation Wall Certificate, Item: 620973. (Which if I had known this sooner, we maybe could've avoided this whole conversation). 

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:)  Just keep the bling comin'  National makes a fortune off of it.

 

If it's a rank, why do ALL Boy Scouts regardless of when they start all have to start with Scout Rank then Tenderfoot, etc. but in Cub Scouts one can come in at age 9, get AOL, the highest "Rank" without having to do the rest.  Kinda like getting drafted and because of your age, you're a general in the Army or a admiral in the Navy.

 

Call it what you want.  If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck.....  or A rose by any other name is still a rose.

 

One can correct me on this when the day comes when a 16 year old joins Boy Scouts and walks away with his Eagle after doing just the Eagle requirements.

 

Sorry, but there are two entirely different dynamics going on regardless of what BSA literature messes up. 

 

One of my feeder packs has never done awards or what you call ranks.  From Tiger until Webelos II all the pack did was a Pack meeting aka party and an outing.  If any of the awards were earned it was up to the parents, they didn't even have DL's.  I took on that Pack's Webelos II and another Packs burnt out WDL's boys and are getting them the AOL.  Last year that would have been impossible.  Now the bling is available with just a little bit of effort and it has nothing to do with the advancement through the ranks.

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Also Scout Shop sells a Cub Scout Pack Graduation Wall Certificate, Item: 620973. (Which if I had known this sooner, we maybe could've avoided this whole conversation). 

 

And because it's call graduation it implies to the parents this is the end of the program and now they are free to engage in any and all other programs for their boys.  Boy Scouts is just one of another option out there.

 

I crossed over 9 boys from a pack's graduation.  I handed out books and neckers and NEVER SAW ANY OF THOSE BOYS EVER AGAIN. 

 

I have seen boys cross over the bridge and then go sit with their parents because they had no intention of continuing on in Boy Scouts, the program is over, done, fini.  The "cross over" was a joke, but little Johnny didn't feel left out of walking over the bridge to nowhere.

 

Graduation 50 years ago marked the end of something.  If that's the message one wishes to promote, fine, but I've seen hundreds of potential scouts over the years simply disappear after graduation. 

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And because it's call graduation it implies to the parents this is the end of the program and now they are free to engage in any and all other programs for their boys.  Boy Scouts is just one of another option out there.

 

I crossed over 9 boys from a pack's graduation.  I handed out books and neckers and NEVER SAW ANY OF THOSE BOYS EVER AGAIN. 

 

I have seen boys cross over the bridge and then go sit with their parents because they had no intention of continuing on in Boy Scouts, the program is over, done, fini.  The "cross over" was a joke, but little Johnny didn't feel left out of walking over the bridge to nowhere.

 

Graduation 50 years ago marked the end of something.  If that's the message one wishes to promote, fine, but I've seen hundreds of potential scouts over the years simply disappear after graduation.

 

That's too bad. That is not my experience, however. We do the bridge but the only boys that cross it are the ones who have been visiting scout troops and committed to a troop. A rep from their new troop attends the ceremony and is on the other side of the bridge. The scout is also given a check made out to the troop with a portion of his fundraising sales to seed his new Scout Account. (I supposed that is one way to make up for the lost neckerchiefs and handbooks!) 

 

I don't know of a single boy that has graduated from our pack in the past 5 years who crossed the bridge and then dropped out of scouting within 2 years. We do have a boy who is a Web II but he did not visit any troops or show an interest in continuing and therefore is not walking the bridge. 

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The packs here really don't care what the Boy Scouts have to deal with.  The boys are out the door and out of sight.  What happens after that is of no concern of theirs.

 

Yes, we have the whole troop there to welcome the new boys into the Troop.  Neckers are passed out, books given cross over the bridge and then NOTHING.  They don't even let on they won't be joining up. 

 

We do not use ISA's and so we get stuck with the cost of the snub.

 

And maybe YOU don't cross over the boys who show no interest in Boy Scouts, but that's not universal throughout the country, obviously.  All the packs around here do and there's no oooh's or aaaah's when the boy crosses over and then turns away from the 2-3 waiting troops and goes sits with his parents.

 

This year, and in all future years, the packs can do whatever it is they wish to do and that's fine with us.  The TROOP will do the cross-over as the "initiation" into the troop.  None of this collect the goodies and run stuff.   We pick a neutral location for the event, invite the packs and the Webelos families that will have boys crossing over and we will know by who shows up whether or not they are serious about Boy Scouts or not.

 

If there is any monies coming from the packs, it is put into the general fund of the troop. 

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@hear4212 Those ISAs at least used to be a hot button issue around here. Not sure we're the "discussion" was left as I took a hiatus but many were vehemently opposed to them, at least as far as fundraising proceedes.

 

If I were running a troop again I would at minimum require and app filled out and signed by the scouts and parents before handing over a book etc.

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@hear4212 Those ISAs at least used to be a hot button issue around here. Not sure we're the "discussion" was left as I took a hiatus but many were vehemently opposed to them, at least as far as fundraising proceedes.

 

If I were running a troop again I would at minimum require and app filled out and signed by the scouts and parents before handing over a book etc.

 

I have struggled with that question myself as Pack Treasurer. Our council pushes selling camp cards in the spring to cover the cost of day camp. But to get the early bird discount, most parents sign-up and pay for camp online before the fundraiser is even over! They usually tell me to just apply the funds earned to next year's dues or something in essence creating scout accounts! 

 

Since I have been in the Pack, our boys have only crossed over into two different troops. Both have ISAs so it's not been an issue. But if they didn't, now that I know what you all go through with buying items only to lose them, I would just offer the troop the check to reimburse them for the items they issue. It's a token, but hopefully these little things help the boys feel committed to their new troops. 

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Agreed.  Some boys in my Den may get their first lesson in winning and losing from me.

 

Way way back in 1975 my first grade class had a turkey drawing contest for Thanksgiving.  Of course, my turkey was the best! I'll never forget him; a beautiful tom turkey on yellow construction paper. My turkey would win and that's what I told everybody in class who would listen.

 

I don't remember who won, we had 1st 2nd & 3rd place, but it wasn't me.  I cried and cried!  Two young teacher's aides (they were high school girls & I think they judged the contest) came and sat beside me and explained that even when we do our best, we don't always win. I was over it by the end of the day.

 

I owe it to them to pay the lesson forward. If Millennial Mom gets mad, chews me out and pulls her boy from the Pack, well, at least I did the right thing.  A Scout is brave, right? 

 

Exactly. 

 

And you didn't complete 50% of a turkey, or 25% or 75%. You did a COMPLETE turkey and tried your best.

 

That's the lesson. Do a complete job and give your best. Well done!

Edited by Krampus

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But that's a competition.  Its not that everyone in your class received a 1st place ribbon except you.  Are you suggesting we only award one Wolf Badge per den?

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But that's a competition.  Its not that everyone in your class received a 1st place ribbon except you.  Are you suggesting we only award one Wolf Badge per den?

 

I don't see that as the same thing. Every Cub can earn a Wolf badge if he meets the requirements.  If he doesn't he can still age into Bear with his buddies, he just doesn't get a badge, no big deal.  That's what I'm telling my Tiger parents.  

 

As a matter of fact, I never got a Wolf badge because I wouldn't try to swim 30 feet.  I topped out at Bobcat.

Edited by dilrod
  • Upvote 1

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Really though we have a nice graduation tradition where every kid gets on stage, the parents present them with their rank badge, and then we take a family pic. I am just thinking what do we do in that moment for those kids who aren't getting a badge? A certificate? A homemade plaque? Is there some generic badge at the scout shop we can buy for their brag vest to commemorate the year? That's the kind of ideas I was going for. I wasn't trying to figure out a way to give them badges they haven't earned!

Understood.  I think a hearty Cub Scout handshake and welcome by their next Den Leader is the best thing a boy could have.

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Whoa, I have never heard of giving the Cub Scout their rank badge fi they did not earn it. We have one Scout who did not earn Tiger, Wolf, or Bear (because the parent never brought him to the meetings). The parent then asked the DL if her son could be given the Bear rank and they he would take a year off and come back to Webelos next year (he is a younger scout who got held back during Scouts). The DL said no, then came to me for backup. I said no as well. This is DEFINITLEY not something that should ever happen. I get the "Do Your Best" motto, but not when it comes to something like a rank badge. The Scouts who earned it knows the other Scout did not earn it and they worked hard for theirs. I would never let a Scout just get their rank badge...and yes it is a rank badge...not an award.

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Whoa, I have never heard of giving the Cub Scout their rank badge fi they did not earn it. We have one Scout who did not earn Tiger, Wolf, or Bear (because the parent never brought him to the meetings). The parent then asked the DL if her son could be given the Bear rank and they he would take a year off and come back to Webelos next year (he is a younger scout who got held back during Scouts). The DL said no, then came to me for backup. I said no as well. This is DEFINITLEY not something that should ever happen. I get the "Do Your Best" motto, but not when it comes to something like a rank badge. The Scouts who earned it knows the other Scout did not earn it and they worked hard for theirs. I would never let a Scout just get their rank badge...and yes it is a rank badge...not an award.

 

Yes, these are the hard feelings one creates with a misinterpretation of the situation.

 

There is no such thing as "flunking" or need to hold back due to some ill conceived notion that these are an incremental ranking  of sorts.  IT IS NOT A RANK.  One does not take the next step up having achieved a step ranking, they merely turn one year older and move on to the next level of scouting.  The patch only represents how well they did their best while at that level.  They either earned the achievement award or they didn't.  You earned it?  Great, move on to the next level.  You didn't earn it?  Well, work harder at the next level and you might get the achievement award.

 

OMG! My son just failed Bears and has to be held back a year?  How stupid is that?

 

In Boy Scouts they have rankings.  If that system was applied to Cub Scouting, the one boy who didn't attend meetings would be in Tigers, not Webelos.

 

Do the parents a favor, call it what it is.  It's an achievement award for doing the necessary requirements to earn it.  It does not signify any ranking above any other scout at that age.  

 

There are boys in Boy Scouting that do not aspire to be Eagles.  Not a problem.  They just progress to a certain rank and then just have fun, do their thing and that's it.

 

A Cub Scout can take a pass on Tiger award, the Wolf award, the Bear award, the Webelos award, and then work his tail off to earn the Arrow of Light award, the highest "rank"(?) in Cub Scouts?  How is that possible.  No, the Arrow of Light is the highest AWARD in Cub Scouting. 

 

There's a whole different mind-set for the parent that thinks their son is flunking Cub Scouts, has had their child held back a year?  What's with that?  All because people are not identifying the system appropriately.

 

Your son did not earn the Wolf award.  That's unfortunate, next year he'll have a chance to earn his Bear award. 

 

(he is a younger scout who got held back during Scouts).   This is a major travesty in my book.  Even if a boy gets held back in school, he still, by age, moves on in Scouting!  These uninformed Cub leaders have just cut a year off this boy's chances at Eagle in Boy Scouts.  I would tell the parents that their son get in his age appropriate Cub program, at least work hard on the AOL and join Boy Scouts during his 10th year of age or age 11 at the latest.  My guess is that this boy will soon find sports a lot more fun than putting up with Scouting.

Edited by Stosh

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