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Appliancedude

1 outing multiple requirements?

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So a question arose at our pack.  Can 1 outing be used for more that one requirement?  For example, for the Tigers safe and smart, the scouts need to merely visit a emergency response agency, and for rolling Tigers they have to go a police station and talk about bike safety.  Would the trip to the police station count for both electives?

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It certainly can count and that's entirely up to you folks to decide if it does or not.  I would suggest, however; that if the only thing done at the police station is a talk on bicycle safety that you consider not making it count towards the other requirement.  I would want to add a tour of the police station as a component of the outing to qualify for the visit to an emergency response agency. 

 

Even then, I think I would still try to do a tour of a fire station, even if you don't count it towards the requirement just because Tigers and Fire Stations really seem to go hand in hand - and most fire departments love to give tours to Tigers and Brownies.

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This is Cub Scouts, where we "Do our best," so you can count it, but the question is should you count it?  The old Tiger Cub program had five 'Go See It' requirements.  The new advancement program has five required adventures, a Duty to God required adventure, and an elective.  Most adventures have an outing as one component.  So it seems to me that the smart folks who put together this new program for us wanted us to get the boys out and exploring at least 6 times per year (the Duty to God adventures are recommended for a boy to work on with his family).  If all we do is sit in a classroom, then we're basically just adding hours to the boys' school day, not providing a fun and exciting program that will keep the boys interested in Scouting.

 

If it were up to me, I'd count the police station visit if a boy was sick on the day we visited a fire station, hospital, or ambulance station.  However, I'd really try to schedule both outings because outings are fun (and frankly, really easy for you as a leader - all you need to do is schedule it and then have fun with your boy(s)).  I might consider doing only the police station outing if instead of a fire station, hospital, etc. I had some other really fun and exciting bonus adventure planned during the month we were working on the Safe and Smart adventure.

 

To summarize my thoughts on outings:

  1. Try to stick to the program outlined in the Leader Guide, including all outings, whenever possible.  For adventures where there isn't a meeting plan for an outing, there is usually a note suggesting possible outings.  Use these suggestions, or come up with your own, but try to have one outing per adventure.
  2. If you have to deviate from the Leader Guide, I would argue that a good Cub Scout program incorporates 5-6 den outings per year.  As long as you are doing that many and almost all of them are tied to the required adventures, your program is probably fun and will keep the boys engaged.
  3. If a boy misses a den outing, but an outing from another adventure could fulfill the requirements, give him credit.  Likewise, if he did an outing through school or with his family, count it.  However, don't use school and family outings as a substitute for a good Cub Scout program - schedule the outings with Cub Scouts, but count outside adventures in cases where a boy was sick or couldn't attend the adventure at the scheduled time.
  4. One last suggestion - since most ranks require a campout, campfire, outdoor cooking, and/or hike... and since these aren't easily done in a one hour den meeting on a weeknight, at the Pack level try to schedule at least two campouts where these requirements can be met.  Our Pack scheduled a Fall, Winter, and Spring campout, as well as sending boys to both our Cub Scout Resident summer camp, and our Webelos resident summer camp.  We're trying to give the boys as many chances as possible to complete these adventures, and we know that sometimes family schedules can conflict with our Pack schedule, and if we only offer one campout that might mean boys couldn't advance.  Also, for our campout we try to incorporate as many outdoor adventure requirements as possible (nature hike, campfire program, Scouts cooking a meal, etc.).
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What Calico said.   Why limit yourself and miss out on the fun just because you can do double duty?  

When we were Tigers, (Scoutson is now in college), we visited a Train Museum, saw the model train exhibit in TWO places, watched a couple of trains cross thru town, then visited the local lunch counter , talked about making food and had an ice cream cone.   Three requirements in one Saturday morning and afternoon!

The requirements have been "adjusted", but the idea is the same.  Have fun with your Cubs while they are still kids, learn some along the way.   And eat ice cream.  

 

Check with your State Police or local hospital.  See how the rescue helicopters are done.  Our Maryland State Police have an aviation division that will allow tours of their helicopter bases.  Talk about WOW factor.  

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Thanks guys.  I'll give a little more info on why I ask the question.  Our den leader has frankly been a disappointment.  He does not use a den leaders guide at all.  Since we joined last Sept. we have done exactly 4 outings.  1 was right on the school we meet at's soccer field doing our 1 ft hike.  The 2nd was across the street from the school to a little wooded area.  Both of these were for backyard jungle.  We then, months later, like Feb went to a fire station for team tiger.  I'm not sure why because there is nothing in team tiger about that. And then we did our hike in mid April for tigers in the wild.  And now in May at the last minute we are cramming in the magic one.  And he wants us to do most of it at home, because next week is our last den meeting before our final pack meeting. The rest of the year has been spent in a classroom with zero activities.  Its basically a round table discussion with 6 and 7 year olds about the requirements.  We only have 4 boys in our den.  2 of them, the den leaders son and the assistant den leaders son have done no outside work on electives.  My son and my friends son who we got into scouting want to do extra adventures.  I get that the under the new program its basically impossible to do everything.  But I want my son to have fun and more experiences.  So I decided his visit to the fire station should also count towards safe and smart.  My friend's brother in law is a sheriff and is going to talk bicycle safety for rolling tigers.  I feel really bad for the boys.

Next year I'm hoping to take over and become the wolf den leader.  I will be using the leaders guide and planning a much more fun year.  But for those kids that can't make a outing or want to use one of our outings for a requirement on another adventure that they do independent of the meetings I wanted to know if it was ok. I'm going to be encouraging the boys to do some of the electives at home, since theres no way I can see getting through them all in just 1 hour a week.

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Hmmm, the plot thickens.  So you aren't the den leader, but would like to be.  Talk to your Cubmaster and Pack Committee Chair.  Rarely do we have someone step up who wants to lead a den.  I'm sure they will welcome you with open arms.  The question is, will the current Den Leader and Assistant want to step down or move to a different position?  If they want to stay involved with their sons' den, they may not want to step aside to let you in as a registered Den Leader.

 

As a general rule, I don't recommend a hostile takeover in Cub Scouts.  We're all supposed to be having fun, right?  Parents and leaders included. 

 

Even if you aren't a Den Leader, every parent in the Tiger den is supposed to be helping the Den Leader to lead an Adventure.  As your son moves to Wolf, that doesn't need to stop.  If you think you can do a good job putting together an Adventure for Rolling Tigers, tell the Den Leader that.  Rarely have I seen a case where a Den Leader will turn away help.  If it goes well, offer to lead another.

 

If the Pack Committee sees you doing a better job than the current leaders, maybe they can work something out without any hurt feelings.  You become Den Leader, keep one or both as either official or unofficial assistants.  Maybe the Committee can find some other role for the two current leaders.  "Hey Bob, you did a great job with your Tiger Den this year.  All of those boys did a great job on advancement.  We could really use your skills as our Advancement chair, would you consider shifting into that role?  Don't worry about your son's den, we think Appliancedude would make a great Den Leader and would like to give him a chance to lead the den.  You could still attend the Wolf Den meetings with your son and even help lead adventures.  So, Bob, are you up for the Advancement Chair role?"

 

Hopefully everyone can work something out and be happy.  Our Pack did some shuffling this year and it worked out great.  We had one quiet dad who was our Tiger Den Leader last year, along with another dad who was very outgoing.  The quiet dad had an older son who started Webelos this year.  The outgoing dad shifted to a different Pack, but several parents in the now Wolf den wanted to help out.  So we shifted the quiet dad to Webelos, where his personality was a great fit for that level of boy.  We had a Mom & Dad pair and another Dad step up to run the Wolf den.  It worked out great, and everyone was happy. 

 

Good luck, hopefully you can work out an official leadership change with no hurt feelings.  If not, like I said, volunteer to lead an adventure.  Then another one, then another one.  Most den leaders will welcome the help.

Edited by meyerc13

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A hostile takeover is exactly what I want to avoid.  The current den leader as I said has been a disappointment.  He has not asked for any help and doesn't even communicate with his assistant den leader.  It wasn't until I took all the on line training, while I've been off with a knee injury, that I learned the parents were supposed to be helping lead adventures.  The day I had knee surgery, my wife had to take my son to his den meeting.  They were supposed to practice their skit, and learn a song for the next weeks pack meeting to fulfill the last requirement of tigers in the wild.  He showed up to bring his older son to a bear meeting and left because he had to get his mom home from the hospital.  Didn't communicate with anyone.  Didn't tell his assistant what song they were supposed to learn, nothing. What is the assistant for, if not to assist?  The boys didn't sing a song, and he narrated the skit for them. 

 

I've brought my concerns to the pack leader, and the committee chair.  They have both sat in on our den meetings.  Since there was not much time left, it's been decided to leave it alone until the end of May, and then they will deal with the situation.  My son is bored out of his mind.  As well as the other kids.  It's not been simple, and certainly hasn't been fun.  I've let the leader and chair both know that I would be happy to take the den over.  I really hope it can be accomplished with no hurt feelings. 

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