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Tampa Turtle

Need advice for aging out Eagle

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My guess is that the parent Scouters don't take the younger ASMs seriously, basically thinking of them as just Scouts, and not as adult leaders. 

 

Why wouldn't they, BSA doesn't take them seriously either thus the age issues with Boy Scouting and Venturing.

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Yah, I'd say Venturing Crew if yeh have a good one around.  That can be a big "if". 

 

I'd also encourage him to be a full-fledged ASM, eh? 

 

It's true in da U.S. that our habit has become to treat middle schoolers like they're 3rd graders and high schoolers like they're 6th graders and young adults like they're in 8th grade.  In much of da rest of the world, day-to-day Scoutin' is run by the Rover-aged folks (under 26), with a few 30-somethings around as group leaders.  Havin' an over-40 person in a youth contact role is kinda creepy.  :o

 

Still, I've seen lots of troops that use 18-year-old ASMs as full ASMs without problems.  In fact, by and large they're better than da average parent ASM.  They're more fit and more adventurous.  They listen better to the lads.   They've spent da last 7+ years being "trained" and practicin, rather than just doin' a weekend IOLS.   Treat 'em like real ASMs and they'll quickly become your best and most reliable ASMs.

 

Only caveat I'd have is that an 18-year-old high school senior can't be an "adult leader" to a 17-year-old high school classmate.  That's just silly.  It's best to let 18-year-olds continue as youth members while they're still in high school, I reckon.  Or, in this case, to assign da young ASM to doin' work mostly with younger kids and not with kids who are his "peers" in high school.   Havin' high school graduation as da move-to-adult is also a lot easier for parents to grok, eh?  It's part of our culture that after that they're off to college on their own, or work, or the military.   That's when we really start treatin' 'em as adults.

 

Beavah

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... Only caveat I'd have is that an 18-year-old high school senior can't be an "adult leader" to a 17-year-old high school classmate. That's just silly. ...

Don't see how it's silly. If some 17-year-olds have a good 3-day hike plan and need some competent adults for the sake of legitimacy, I always look at skills over age. (That said if the plan is really good ... knowing how some of my boys can cook ... I might all-but-beg to be invited along. :o )

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It's true in da U.S. that our habit has become to treat middle schoolers like they're 3rd graders and high schoolers like they're 6th graders and young adults like they're in 8th grade.  In much of da rest of the world, day-to-day Scoutin' is run by the Rover-aged folks (under 26), with a few 30-somethings around as group leaders.  Havin' an over-40 person in a youth contact role is kinda creepy.  :o

 

Seriously?  With age comes wisdom.  Some of the best youth workers are in the +40 age group in that they don't have skin in the game and they don't have anything to prove.  Along with a "been-there, done-that" experience, they can out-perform the <30 year olds any day.  They don't come off as pals, the way the younger leaders like to see themselves as and thus are not taken as seriously as the older leaders.

 

I have a Boy Scout troop, a Venturing crew and a church youth group.  I was actively recruited because of my background for all three.  Kinda creepy?  I would find a 25 year old Venture Crew advisor in a co-ed group more in that category.

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No, he has no years until he ages out. He will be 18 "soon." But he has two years left in high school. Now, why he is going to be in high school until age 20 when most people graduate at 17 or 18, I'm not going to ask. I'm sure there is a good reason.

 

I see no problem with him being an ASM, if the SM thinks he's qualified, and mainly going on camping trips rather than coming to every weekly meeting. Maybe he can come to meetings when camping trips are being planned. TT seems to be saying that in the past when there have been "young" ASM's, "sometimes the parent scouters could be difficult." Difficult how?

He has a few learning disabilities that he has overcome. He had to repeat Kindergarden (yeah) and Third Grade (failed the standardized reading test by a few points) so he is behind two years.

 

I am curious as to what the SM thinks, I should find out tonight.

 

As to problems with adults. Nothing major just a reluctance for some parent/scouters to take the advice of young men with much scout but less life experience. But, in general, the Scouts enthusiasm for someone cooler than their Dads wins out,  Just wondering out loud for him to avoid the pitfalls...

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Had never heard of this, so googled it and found it here. It is called Unit College Scouter Reserve. The process seems simple but is done at the council level and not the unit level at recharter:

Ah yes but he will still be in High school for 2 more years.

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I'll bounce the Venturing idea off him, he was tempted to join a few years ago when he heard they had girls. I'll ask around my neck of the woods.

 

Not so sure with the JASM. We have had a couple so designated but know when knew what to do with them.

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Not so sure with the JASM. We have had a couple so designated but know when knew what to do with them.

 

When I was a youth, the JASM role was one of my most formative.   As a graduated SPL, the adult scouters took me in as an apprentice and not only taught me their duties (committee, SM, ASM) but they also gave me adult tasks to complete.   I was treated like an adult and was expected to conduct myself as such.   Invaluable lessons not only in scouting, but also in that transition from kid to adult.

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If he's that accomplished and he has two years until he ages out, I would recommend a JASM or Instructor role for him.

 

I always tell my guys like that what my football (soccer) coach told me. He was from Africa and had a very unique but simple outlook on life. He'd say, "Life is like a well. If you keep taking from the well and don't help dig it deeper or build a new one, future generations will have no well, no water, no future. Dig another well or dig the well that's there deeper before you leave." His point was simple, put back into the program what you have taken out. If you are an Eagle there is a great deal you owe the program. ;)

 

I pass that wisdom on to my Scouts. Don't Eagle out and leave. Troop meetings can be dull. How can HE help make them fun? How can he help equip the new Scouts coming in with the core Scouting skills they need to be just like him? How can he help develop the youth leaders of the troop? How can he help train the adults in the troop how to stay out of the Scouts' hair?

 

My kid is in the same boat. As a SMs and CMs kid, he's put in WAY more time than perhaps 99% of the all the other Scouts. However, I always point out to him that the ability to continue to give -- even after you have given your full measure -- is what defines you as a human being and a good Scout. He's taken a role as a JASM and lead Instructor until he ages out. He's going to come on as an ASM before he graduates.

 

Sounds like your Scout still has the interest. It's up to you and his SM to help him challenge himself further instead of thinking he's "done".

Well, when BSA force youth out at 18 you kind of imply "they are done". I heard a rumor that Venturing may stop at 18 son. I had to break it two him there was no way he could earn any Eagle Palms since he just times out. He is kinda mad at me  I made him "do things the hard way" when he saw 14 or 15 year old Eagles with 14 Merit Badges up and out so they can pad their college application resume. That really brought the whole Eagle quality control argument home hard. But to be honest he was not ready for the boring, bureaucratic slog that is the Eagle process a year ago. But I digress.

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Well, when BSA force youth out at 18 you kind of imply "they are done". I heard a rumor that Venturing may stop at 18 son. I had to break it two him there was no way he could earn any Eagle Palms since he just times out. He is kinda mad at me  I made him "do things the hard way" when he saw 14 or 15 year old Eagles with 14 Merit Badges up and out so they can pad their college application resume. That really brought the whole Eagle quality control argument home hard. But to be honest he was not ready for the boring, bureaucratic slog that is the Eagle process a year ago. But I digress.

 

No one, and I mean no one worth their salt that knows a lick about BSA, will give a darn about how many palms a Scout has when it comes to jobs or college. Tell you son that from someone who hires people and sits on a college admissions board. ;)

 

It has been my expereience the kids with 2+ palms don't interview well and tend to be 1" deep and a mile wide. The real Scouts show no matter if they are Eagles at 13 or 18 or never made Eagle at all. It's about the character, not the patch on their chest.

 

I am sure he will realize what you did for him...but it might take a while. ;)

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Krampus, I am not holding my breath on that last one.

 

I told him that IF a college admissions board looked at his record it would probably look better if he stayed on and showed some commitment as an 'adult'. 

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Indeed, those palm collectors tend to focus on quantity of accomplishment, rather than quality thereof.

 

An Eagle with 21 legitimately earned MBs, and has a good working knowledge of all 21, is going to be miles ahead of the Eagle who rushes through 51.   Just a thought.

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Krampus, I am not holding my breath on that last one.

 

I told him that IF a college admissions board looked at his record it would probably look better if he stayed on and showed some commitment as an 'adult'. 

Bingo. We all know how much it says about a person when another adult accepts a youth-turned-adult in to a program and put them in a position of trust. That more than anything else in the world speaks volumes about the young man.

 

As far as gratitude showing goes, it will come. I seem recall it took marriage and my first born to realize that I was wrong all those years and my parents were right. Now blessed with teenagers, I call my parents weekly to thank them for not beating me senseless, driving me to the deepest part of Death Valley and leaving me for vulture fodder.

 

They just laugh, say "you're welcome", hang up and enjoy retirement. ;)

Edited by Krampus

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Not so sure with the JASM. We have had a couple so designated but know when knew what to do with them.

 

Just to clarify something - JASM is a youth POR - once you son turns 18, it's ASM or nothing if he remains in the Troop - he would no longer be eligible to be a JASM.

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If he wants to go do the SM specifics training and the IOLS overnight training, then hopefully the troop will accept him as an ASM.

We have 18 year olds who don't have time with all the school stuff going on to go take those trainings.

We register them as Unit college scouter reserve, and nobody ever asks them for a copy of their college id. You could also choose to register as unit scouter reserve if you don't like the college word in the title.

We use those as positions for those adults who want to be registered, and do some stuff with the troop but who can't commit to being an asm and showing up all the time.  It also allows us to get a background check and covers them with bsa insurance for the dads that are always wanting to hang around on campouts but aren't really committed to being an asm or a troop committee member

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