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Scoutmaster denies 17 year old Life Scout Eagle

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So the departures from B.S.A. rules that suit "we" are OK, but the rank of Hedgehog is not?  

 

What about the SM who required all Eagle candidates to be demonstrating leadership when applying for the rank?  Shouldn't Eagle stand for leadership?  We say it does.  So that should be OK if the "we" go along, yes?  

 

And what's wrong with retesting at BoR?  Shouldn't a rank indicate skills actually known vs, known months ago and forgotten?

Edited by TAHAWK
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David CO, I'm curious - are non-Catholics allowed in your Troop?

 

Yes.  Non-Catholics are also allowed in our school.

 

Our policy clearly states that non-Catholics who attend our school will take the same Religion classes as our Catholic students.  Non-Catholic students attend and observe, but do not participate in our sacraments.

 

Non-Catholic students are also required to observe our dietary restrictions at school during Lent.

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Why bother to do any training?  If everyone is just going to make up their own rules as they go along, I don't see any use of training on a program that no one is going to use anyway.

 

Oh, by the way, it does give great comfort that as long as people do such things, it keeps this forum running full steam with all the problems it causes..

Edited by Stosh
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My CO has a service requirement that members are expected to complete as part of their preparation for Confirmation.   The CO doesn't want boys to be doing any other service projects that might compete with their time and energies until after they have received the Sacrament of Confirmation.

 

We won't approve an Eagle project until after Confirmation.

 

David, to be quite honest I was shocked to see this, particularly the refusal to approve an Eagle project pre-Confirmation.  I'm the CC of a Catholic-sponsored Troop, and am familiar with the "service hours for confirmation" idea, but--do you see an issue with a policy such as this as discouraging youth from community service, unless it is directly credited to a Confirmation requirement?

 

What age does your diocese confirm?  In mine it's 11th grade--a policy such as this would in effect prevent some boys from achieving Eagle, as they may be already 18 by then.

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David, to be quite honest I was shocked to see this, particularly the refusal to approve an Eagle project pre-Confirmation.  I'm the CC of a Catholic-sponsored Troop, and am familiar with the "service hours for confirmation" idea, but--do you see an issue with a policy such as this as discouraging youth from community service, unless it is directly credited to a Confirmation requirement?

 

What age does your diocese confirm?  In mine it's 11th grade--a policy such as this would in effect prevent some boys from achieving Eagle, as they may be already 18 by then.

 

We have Confirmation in 8th grade.  

 

I wouldn't mention it except that you asked for my opinion.  I think the whole idea of forced volunteerism through service hours and service projects is idiotic.

 

When you make charity a requirement, it isn't charity anymore.  For many kids, it's just jumping through hoops.

Edited by David CO
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We have Confirmation in 8th grade.  

 

I wouldn't mention it except that you asked for my opinion.  I think the whole idea of forced volunteerism through service hours and service projects is idiotic.

 

When you make charity a requirement, it isn't charity anymore.  For many kids, it's just jumping through hoops.

 

I agree with you 100% about the "forced volunteerism".  Several years back I worked with our Confirmation year students (CCD)...while many did enjoy service to others, there were some that saw it as just a hoop--or said "the heck with it" and chose not to get confirmed at all.

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I agree with you 100% about the "forced volunteerism".  Several years back I worked with our Confirmation year students (CCD)...while many did enjoy service to others, there were some that saw it as just a hoop--or said "the heck with it" and chose not to get confirmed at all.

 

One of our boys chose to not get confirmed so that he could do his Eagle project instead.  You can imagine how that went over.

 

Now we have a rule.

Edited by David CO

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Why bother to do any training?  If everyone is just going to make up their own rules as they go along, I don't see any use of training on a program that no one is going to use anyway.

 

Oh, by the way, it does give great comfort that as long as people do such things, it keeps this forum running full steam with all the problems it causes..

When I was a young vagabond, one of the Italian grandmothers I "adopted" (excellent strategy for ensuring quality Sunday dinners, BTW) would say "America e' grande'!" (America is big ... in this context: vast). I never quite knew what that meant until I started really learning about the subtle things folks in different parts of the country did to make things work for them.

 

The protestant reformation in a nutshell:

... the whole idea of forced volunteerism through service hours and service projects is idiotic....

Just replace "forced volunteerism" with "salvation" and "service hours and service projects" with "works" ;)

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Once the units start making up their own rules, it pretty much ceases to be a BSA unit.  I think other organizations like Trail Life USA would be better suited for their needs, but it doesn't have the prestige of the BSA branding.  This is where the Paper Scouts idea came from and is perpetuated.   They all look good on paper.  All show dogs are A.K.C. registered, but not all A.K.C. registered dogs are show dogs.

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Once the units start making up their own rules, it pretty much ceases to be a BSA unit.  I think other organizations like Trail Life USA would be better suited for their needs, but it doesn't have the prestige of the BSA branding.  This is where the Paper Scouts idea came from and is perpetuated.   They all look good on paper.  All show dogs are A.K.C. registered, but not all A.K.C. registered dogs are show dogs.

 

There is no such thing as a BSA unit.  BSA doesn't own units.

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There is no such thing as a BSA unit.  BSA doesn't own units.

Let's test your thesis.  Give us the council and unit number.

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There is no such thing as a BSA unit.  BSA doesn't own units.

 

There's no such thing as McDonalds or Burger King because Courtesy Corp and Burger King, Inc. don't own restaurants either.  :)

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There is no such thing as a BSA unit.  BSA doesn't own units.

Let's test your thesis.  Give us the council and unit number.

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Why bother to do any training?  If everyone is just going to make up their own rules as they go along, I don't see any use of training on a program that no one is going to use anyway.

 

Good training hopefully helps yeh understand the Aims of the Scoutin' program, and how various tools that we provide help yeh get to those Aims, eh?

 

It doesn't mean that yeh have to use all the tools, nor does it mean yeh can't use any other tools.   Mrs. Beavah's school has professional development & curriculum training for teachers in part so that they know how to use and modify da curriculum to meet the needs of their kids, eh?  Same with Scouters.

 

 

Once the units start making up their own rules, it pretty much ceases to be a BSA unit.

 

Nah. I reckon da BSA gets to define what "a BSA unit" means, eh? :rolleyes:   A unit ceases to be a BSA unit when da CO chooses to drop its charter (or da BSA does, but we all know that's vanishingly rare).

 

Until that point, they are brother scouts and scouters.  Maybe even after that, if they join another organization that's part of da worldwide Scoutin' movement.

 

Stop tryin' to make us a smaller organization than we already are, eh?  BSA membership is not a reward for da perfect, it's a service for youth and adults and organizations who are strugglin' and tryin' to do good things.

 

Beavah

Edited by Beavah

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