Adult-led troops

[desertrat77 1144]

 

I was never in Boy Scouts. Dad was an Eagle, older brothers had a bad experience, I never got the opportunity.   Not sure where that puts me.

Former scout or not, today we have all volunteered to serve...I think this too transcends rank.

[Sentinel947 1205]

Yup. The last three Scoutmasters in my Troop were all excellent. None of them were Scouts. We've had many parents who were Eagle and relatively few serve on the Committee or as ASM's. 

It's about heart and motivation. @@desertrat77 is correct that it transcends rank or scouting experience. Give me a motivated volunteer who is hungry to learn and do things right over a distinguished one any day. 

[Stosh 3452]

Too many assumptions seem to carry over with "former scouts", especially Eagles.  There is no litmus test to sort things out either.

[MattR 2659]

I have an eagle scout/asm that at first was really difficult to work with. Now that he understands the adult view of boy led he really likes it and helps every way he can.

 

As for the OP, one way to sneak in some scout led might be to have a patrol earn the National Honor Patrol award. There are a number of activities a patrol has to organize and do on its own.

[Stosh 3452]

I wouldn't say Eagles aren't trainable, most people are.  The problem with Eagles is they first have to be untrained, then trained.  Takes a bit longer to get them up to speed.

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

I admit I volunteer for my own selfish reasons. One is I want my boys to have the same opportunities for adventure that I had. Another is that I am a Scouting and outdoor addict, to the point where during Cubs, the wife  kicked me out of the house to go camping wiht the OA or a troop because I was going through camping withdrawl. Finallly I feel an obligation to pay back to the leaders I had by continuing their legacy.

 

As for Eagles being unlearning what they have learned, I agree. I say the most difficult transition was from Boy Scout to Scouter as opposed to Cub Scout Leader to Boy Scout Leader. I was worse than a jerk for a while.

 

But going from Boy Scout leader to Cub Scout leader was a bit of a challenge too. Still wish I took a picture of my 5year old Tiger wearing an ALICE pack on a camp out. I should have named him " Helpless Turtle.

[qwazse 4342]

That is interesting, I can't recall a single Eagle who thought they walked on water. ...

That's because the half of us that do walk on water, know we won't the minute we start thinking about it .... blub ... blub ... gurgle...

[CNYScouter 46]

That's because the half of us that do walk on water, know we won't the minute we start thinking about it .... blub ... blub ... gurgle...

People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.

-Isaac Asimov

Edited April 15, 2016 by CNYScouter

[MattHiggins 18]

There are, no doubt, a lot of great leaders here . . . and there's no shortage of snobbery either. Paper Eagles, parlor Eagles, too many palms, better off being an Eagle, better not being Eagle, neckerchief under the collar, too many patches, not enough patches, not the right patches, blah, blah, blah. I do feel bad for the Scouts who find there way here and read.

 

When someone is willing to volunteer, you get a plus one in my book. If they're a former Scout, I see that as a plus as there's a good chance they know the basics of the program and how Scouts works. If they are an Eagle, another plus in my book. I also know prior experience is no guarantee of anything. The best leader in our town has previous experience of one year in Cub Scouts. While I credit his awesomeness as a reflection of who he is as a person, he gives the credit to--get ready for some heads to explode--Scout University/Pow Wow and Round Table.

[Stosh 3452]

@@MattHiggins brings up an important dynamic.

 

One must always be vigilant of the accusations one passes around.  For example, what gets construed as modern snobbery may may in fact be nothing more than historical referencing.  I do believe the expression  Parlour Scout has been used in scouting since the early days of the 20th Century.   And the original British spelling may indicate it was used even prior to BSA or had non-American origins.  Most people of today would need to look up the word to even know what a parlor was.  Because the term is now somewhat obsolete, the term Paper Scout might be used to better illustrate the situation in a more modern context.

 

At different times in the history of scouting the necker used to be worn over the collar, other times, under, some times, the collar was tucked inside the shirt so it wouldn't interfere with the necker and some uniforms don't even have collars.  So we can discuss until everyone is blue in the face as to what is "right".  Seriously?

 

As far as feeling bad about people coming upon these discussions goes, one always has to remember that someone well versed in the skills of the outdoors does not make them a snob.  Someone well versed in the policies and procedures of scout advancement does not make them a snob. Someone well versed in patrol method and leadership dynamics does not make them a snob.  Someone who is well versed in historical references of Scouting does not make them a snob, either.   Judging people as snobs doesn't make them snob in anyone's mind but their own.

 

One must always be aware on the forums of any sort, that the specific words used carry a certain amount of either positive or negative judgment.  While we are often unable to discern the hearts and minds of others, we are all fully aware that there have been a lot of scouts over the years that have been involved for selfish reasons and others for self-less reasons.  A small child standing in the corner of the room could probably be able to tell the difference.

 

If the discussions of such dynamics bother anyone, the forum has a convenient feature known as a Ignore option.  Feel free to use that option.  One may find that they are less offended by "snobbery", but they will also lose out on the knowledge that is imparted at the same time.  I try to keep it in mind that those that know more about things than me aren't snobs it's just that they are more knowledgeable.  Why I would need to feel justified in calling them a snob is difficult to understand at times.  Just remember, I can choose to ignore these people and I can avoid the snobbery, but I also avoid the knowledge imparted.

 

Of course the acquisition of getting either plus or minus points in someone else's book of judgment further illustrates this constant need to evaluate others.  While this is quite natural to do, the effect of always assuming the negative first is also obvious. 

 

Yet in spite of the snobbery, the sarcasm, the humor, etc. I find the forum quite useful.  Of course it takes a bit of getting over one's own judgmentalism to get comfortable on it, and the Ignore feature helps too for the more serious situations. 

[Krampus 696]

I do believe the expression  Parlour Scout has been used in scouting since the early days of the 20th Century.

You're right, of course. The modern term for them now is STEM Scouts.

[Stosh 3452]

Yeah, that works too.

[Eagledad 2777]

I wouldn't say Eagles aren't trainable, most people are.  The problem with Eagles is they first have to be untrained, then trained.  Takes a bit longer to get them up to speed.

Its been said (even by you) that most scouters have to be untrained from their parental instincts because a boy run program takes an objective open mind. Eagles adults are typically just Eagle "parents" when they start volunteering. While I am not an Eagle, I certainly had to be deprogrammed to grow and move forward as a scouter of a patrol method troop. And I learned as a scout in a patrol method Troop. Patrol Method was all I knew.

 

Barry

[TAHAWK 1420]

People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.

-Isaac Asimov

I knew that.

[Stosh 3452]

I wonder if Cliff Clavin was an Eagle Scout?