Eagle94-A1 2687 Posted April 20, 2016 Author Share Posted April 20, 2016 Don't know if it was the Scout's decision, or the adults, but that troop having the parents and SM coach them didn't come back to a district camporee for 3 years. Except one year some of the Scouts came only for the campfire because of the OA Call Out. I know one of the PLs was ticked off when they came to last year's district camporee, because they had no information on any of the events or what to do. SM said he never received any camporee book, yet it was emailed to him, posted on the district FB group of which he is a member, and was posted on the council website.PL was furious that they didn't know about the camporee, the events, supplies needed, etc until they showed up. All that troop did was hang around camp. Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Don't know if it was the Scout's decision, or the adults, but that troop having the parents and SM coach them didn't come back to a district camporee for 3 years. Except one year some of the Scouts came only for the campfire because of the OA Call Out. I know one of the PLs was ticked off when they came to last year's district camporee, because they had no information on any of the events or what to do. SM said he never received any camporee book, yet it was emailed to him, posted on the district FB group of which he is a member, and was posted on the council website.PL was furious that they didn't know about the camporee, the events, supplies needed, etc until they showed up. All that troop did was hang around camp. That was your PL's first mistake. If he is working the patrol method, HE needs to be getting this information which may mean a phone call to the council office and the email sent to him so he knows what's going on. My PL's check on all the district camporees in our council and surrounding councils to see which one sounds like the most fun. That's the one we go to. I'm totally out of the loop and can't be trusted to pass along pertinent and timely information. The boys pick the camporees, the summer camp and all the council activities that are published on the council website. Things go a lot smoother now that the boys know the SM is a screw up and tends to drop the ball on things that are readily available to everyone on the Council website. It's called creative incompetence and the boys just step up their game and keep things on an even keel. I can't do that now with the new troop, but eventually they'll be taking over those research duties and coming up with their own activities along the way. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Krampus 696 Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 I know one of the PLs was ticked off when they came to last year's district camporee, because they had no information on any of the events or what to do. SM said he never received any camporee book, yet it was emailed to him, posted on the district FB group of which he is a member, and was posted on the council website.PL was furious that they didn't know about the camporee, the events, supplies needed, etc until they showed up. All that troop did was hang around camp. Doesn't the district have camporee planning meetings? Aren't the scouts invited to attend, participate and help manage? Sounds like the SPL should have known this stuff would be on the district website or FB page at some point. At very least they should have attended the RT the month before. Our SMs provide this *links* to the information and meetings to the PLs and SPL. The rest is up to them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Doesn't the district have camporee planning meetings? Aren't the scouts invited to attend, participate and help manage? Sounds like the SPL should have known this stuff would be on the district website or FB page at some point. At very least they should have attended the RT the month before. Our SMs provide this *links* to the information and meetings to the PLs and SPL. The rest is up to them. Gotta have a functional SPL/ASPL team or PL's to make things like that happen. Link to post Share on other sites
Krampus 696 Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Gotta have a functional SPL/ASPL team or PL's to make things like that happen. Great way to start that process flowing. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Yep, and it's not that hard to teach.... PAY ATTENTION OR YOU"RE GONNA MISS OUT ON THE FUN! Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle94-A1 2687 Posted April 21, 2016 Author Share Posted April 21, 2016 Again the troop missing camporee the past 3 years, and then showing up not knowing anything is not my troop, but the one that is chartered with the Cub Scout pack I'm with. And it's my understanding that the only reason they showed up this year was because the CM, who has a Webelos, begged the SM to go so the Webelos could camp there and see them in action. That troop is now very adult lead, yes worse than mine is, to the point that ALL leaders are appointed by the SM so that " the same Scouts don't keep getting elected over and over again," and " everyone gets a chance to be a leader." From talking to them, not only are they kept in the dark about district and council activities, the SM doesn't even want them to find out about them. Sitting around the campfire chatting with them, when one asked a question, a loud "GO TO BED!" was heard from the SM's direction. The youth leaders who were there when the old SM was in charge either aged out, transferred, or quit. The current group really have no concept of the patrol method, servant leadership, etc. From the two who transferred to us from them, plus how members of the troop acted at summer camp and otehr events when adults were not around, ti seems more of the 'might makes right" with the youth. And the adults are oblivious to it, even when the youth point it out. As for youth involvement with planning the camporees, unfortunately it's not there. I admti I have mixed emotions on it. On one hand, I beleive that since the camporee is a interpatrol competition you want youth competing. So let the adults run the events and judge so they can have fun. BUT this upcoming camporee has opened my eyes a bit and see the downside of the adults doing all the planning. There are events that we have Scouts who are physically incapable of doing some of the events. Link to post Share on other sites
TAHAWK 1420 Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 You might want to point this out to that SM who refuses to use the Patrol Method, as the Handbook promises he will do: (d) The membership of a troop shall be organized on the patrol system. Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America (2016) Here we again see the risk of adults who make up their own version of Boy Scouting. Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Adults who want to be in the middle of running a Boy Scout unit need to be reminded that the program is BOY Scouts and not ADULT Scouts. Whoever put that post out there about some dad pinch hitting for his son in Little League was spot on! Where do these adults find the time to do all the work that the boys are supposed to be doing? It's no wonder adults burn themselves out by doing all the things they aren't supposed to be doing. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle94-A1 2687 Posted April 21, 2016 Author Share Posted April 21, 2016 You might want to point this out to that SM who refuses to use the Patrol Method, as the Handbook promises he will do: Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America (2016) Here we again see the risk of adults who make up their own version of Boy Scouting. This is the troop I've discussed previously that is slowly falling apart.. This is the SM whom I've helped to train, but is ignoring that training.. This is the SM who ignored his long time UC, former SM, District Training Chair ( who was an ASM in the troop and Advisor for the Crew), myself on multiple occasions (including a 3+ hour conversation around a fire because all his adults left early and he needed a 2nd adult to continue camping) , an experienced ASM who was with the troop 3 months before his son quit ( and son was so discouraged he would not consider looking for a new troop), his first Eagle Scout at the SM conference ( yes, the Eagle told him exactly how he is screwing up the troop and how to fix it), multiple Scouts including 3 who went through NYLT, and several parents. This is the aggravating situation I've discussed in the past, tried to help, told " I don't know what I'm talking about," and "Scouting needs to change with the times," and finally washed my hands of the unit leadership. My only interaction with the troop now is that of a Webelos parent who Cub was invited to camp with them. Although I still talk and give ideas to the youth around the campfire. Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Yep, know how you feel, add to the disregard to the teachings, policies and helpful suggestions of scouts, parents and fellow scouters and they still won't listen because they have the District Award of Merit, Silver Beaver and a dozen other accolades on their shirt and mantle and this person isn't gonna change. It always ends up ugly and cleaning up after such people is messy. After 25 years they finally had enough of the guy that was the SM of my first ASM position when my son was in the program. I walked away and it took another 10 years to have him removed. A couple dozen Eagles got produced during that tenure, but hundreds of boys got turned off from scouting as well. Link to post Share on other sites
qwazse 4342 Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 You know, some of this boils down to proper COR training ... convincing them that they actually are responsible to approve leadership who deliver that program, and failure to do so reflects on the CO, not the unit. Being the youngest kid in the family I grew up hearing criticism (good and bad) of other units. Never was a unit # mentioned, it was always "the troop at ___ church" or the "pack out of ___ hall". That still holds to this day. On occasion, a leader's name would be mentioned, but usually ... it's the CO. Link to post Share on other sites
Krampus 696 Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 You know, some of this boils down to proper COR training ... convincing them that they actually are responsible to approve leadership who deliver that program, and failure to do so reflects on the CO, not the unit. I would bet in my area that few, if any, COs see the units as part of their church. We are mostly seen as tenants. It would take some significant training to teach COs in my area that they actually own the units and are responsible for their operation. When we need their signature they are usually dumbfounded saying, "Why do *I* need to sign Boy Scout stuff?". 2 Link to post Share on other sites
TAHAWK 1420 Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 (edited) n“Little League Coach pitches Parma Nationals to area championship.†n“I had to take over. None of the boys could find the plate.†Edited April 21, 2016 by TAHAWK Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 If the boys couldn't find the plate, isn't that the fault of the coach? Maybe he didn't teach the boys to pitch so he could do it himself.... kinda like a lot of SM's are doing out there. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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