Eagle Scout Service Project Approvals Set Precedent?

[desertrat77 1144]

My project involved landscaping at a mental institution.   While we were working, patients would happen by and watch us work.   Sometimes a patient wanted to work too.   Well, why not?  I'd give him or her a shovel and they'd labor alongside the scouts, and do a fine job.   The institution staff was aware, and gave us scouts free reign of the campus, except for a few buildings.

 

I rather doubt that would fly today.

Edited March 30, 2016 by desertrat77

[Stosh 3452]

@@desertrat77, @@RememberSchiff, @@Stosh...thanks for the replies.

 

@@Stosh, did you get Lincoln to sign your Eagle certificate? Or what it Johnson?

 

Duh!  how do you think I got B-P's autograph!

[Stosh 3452]

It's interesting that with the comments being made and yet I still take flack on being able to differentiate between Paper Eagles and Real Eagles.  I have seen too many years of how scouting has changed and until I toss my hiking boots into the closet for the last time, I'm going to keep the trail I've always trod.

[Krampus 696]

My project involved landscaping at a mental institution.   While we were working, patients would happen by and watch us work.   Sometimes a patient wanted to work too.   Well, why not?  I'd give him or her a shovel and they'd labor alongside the scouts, and do a fine job.   The institution staff was aware, and gave us scouts free reign of the campus, except for a few buildings.

 

I rather doubt that would fly today.

 

I don't know. We had a Scout do a project at an animal preserve (yes, lions, tigers and bears). He must have contacted every agency known to mankind to make sure he was ticked and tied with regard to everything. Amazingly district approved it. 

 

At the EBOR the usual district guy (and approver) was not available so a council muckity-muck attended. He wanted to deny the Scout the approval because the project was "inherently dangerous". A quick call to the CE (our CC at the time was golf buddies with him) had this guy backing down and approving this young man's project and application.

[desertrat77 1144]

I don't know. We had a Scout do a project at an animal preserve (yes, lions, tigers and bears). He must have contacted every agency known to mankind to make sure he was ticked and tied with regard to everything. Amazingly district approved it. 

 

At the EBOR the usual district guy (and approver) was not available so a council muckity-muck attended. He wanted to deny the Scout the approval because the project was "inherently dangerous". A quick call to the CE (our CC at the time was golf buddies with him) had this guy backing down and approving this young man's project and application.

It's good to know that there are still folks out there with the right perspective, thanks for sharing that.   The scouts are capable of amazing insights and initiative, if they are given the opportunity.

[Stosh 3452]

It's good to know that there are still folks out there with the right perspective, thanks for sharing that.   The scouts are capable of amazing insights and initiative, if they are given the opportunity.

You guys are right on.  Too many adults trying to dictate how things should be instead of creating gr

eat opportunities for boys to show the world what they are made of!

 

How does one "mentor" a boy's dream?  It ain't gonna happen....EVER!

[fred johnson 936]

I agree. However, I think BSA's process (merely getting the proposal approved and not the project plan itself prior to execution) does a disservice to the Scout. They'd get more out of the project planning and approval process by working to get the project plan approved before beginning work.

 

Debatable, but a valid point.    

[fred johnson 936]

The project doesn't make the Eagle, but some of these projects keep good scouts from becoming Eagles.

 

Great quote!  I'm going to steal that one.

[fred johnson 936]

With permission, I used power tools on site just as I did at home and school. Job site preparation, safety, and cleanup were questions asked at my board. Adult labor was minimal as in driving.

 

P.S. I forgot, I also used ladders. I doubt my project would be approved today. Too many no-no's.

 

It could be approved, but with caveats and safety rules about who can do what. 

 

Times changed and national child labor laws exist and our projects are subject to those laws.

[Krampus 696]

It could be approved, but with caveats and safety rules about who can do what. 

 

Times changed and national child labor laws exist and our projects are subject to those laws.

 

Yeah, but forbidding Scouts 14 and under from using a 6ft ladder is a bit ridiculous. We teach them to shoot bows, sling shots, rifles and shotguns, but God forbid they step on a 6ft ladder. Handsaws = yes, post-hole diggers = no? Guys in high school shop can use belt sanders and saws but if they're Scouts they cannot use them on a project?

 

That's got nothing to do with labor laws. That's got to do with lawyers and insurance.

[RememberSchiff 3667]

It could be approved, but with caveats and safety rules about who can do what. 

 

Times changed and national child labor laws exist and our projects are subject to those laws.

With my permission, my 16 yr old did the same project (but different beneficiary) by himself for school graduation service hours.

 

It's the BSA, not the state, school, or church that is the nancy here.

Edited March 30, 2016 by RememberSchiff

[fred johnson 936]

Yeah, but forbidding Scouts 14 and under from using a 6ft ladder is a bit ridiculous. We teach them to shoot bows, sling shots, rifles and shotguns, but God forbid they step on a 6ft ladder. Handsaws = yes, post-hole diggers = no? Guys in high school shop can use belt sanders and saws but if they're Scouts they cannot use them on a project?

 

That's got nothing to do with labor laws. That's got to do with lawyers and insurance.

 

 

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=48d6ee3b99d3b3a97b1bf189e1757786&rgn=div5&view=text&node=29:3.1.1.1.31&idno=29

 

PART 570—CHILD LABOR REGULATIONS, ORDERS AND STATEMENTS OF INTERPRETATION

§570.33   Occupations that are prohibited to minors 14 and 15 years of age.

(g) Outside window washing that involves working from window sills, and all work requiring the use of ladders, scaffolds, or their substitutes.

Edited March 31, 2016 by fred johnson

[Stosh 3452]

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=48d6ee3b99d3b3a97b1bf189e1757786&rgn=div5&view=text&node=29:3.1.1.1.31&idno=29

 

PART 570—CHILD LABOR REGULATIONS, ORDERS AND STATEMENTS OF INTERPRETATION §570.33   Occupations that are prohibited to minors 14 and 15 years of age.

(g) Outside window washing that involves working from window sills, and all work requiring the use of ladders, scaffolds, or their substitutes.

 

LOL!  My first job after my paper route as a kid was washing windows inside and out at the local library.  Guess where the windows are at the library!  30' ladders outside, and 10' ladders inside where I could get up on top of the book shelves and move from one window to the next to wash.  I was 13 years of age at that point!   By the way, when one works for the library, they are a city government employee.  And I didn't need to walk through the snow uphill both ways to get to the library.

[RememberSchiff 3667]

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=48d6ee3b99d3b3a97b1bf189e1757786&rgn=div5&view=text&node=29:3.1.1.1.31&idno=29

 

PART 570—CHILD LABOR REGULATIONS, ORDERS AND STATEMENTS OF INTERPRETATION

§570.33   Occupations that are prohibited to minors 14 and 15 years of age.

(g) Outside window washing that involves working from window sills, and all work requiring the use of ladders, scaffolds, or their substitutes.

 

Doesn't apply, any more than Child Labor daily/weekly time limits apply to school extracurricular activities. No one is doing these tasks as a requirement of employment.

 

My sons also remove/install screens and recaulk windows while up on ladders.

 

Teach boys to work safely and to safely use tools.

Edited March 31, 2016 by RememberSchiff

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

@Richard_B,

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought  you and others (I questioned these rules to my SE and he looked in and replied to me) stated the following:

 

1) Some units work with other non-profits to do service projects, Habitat for Humanity was mentioned by someone, that DOES use the DOL laws in conducting service projects, that was one reason for implementing DOL rules for a VOLUNTEER ( emphasis) organization.

 

2) Since BSA does employ under 18 year olds at their day camps and summer camps, CONSISTANCY (emphasis) needed to be applied across the board.

 

 

Personally I think the rules and regs are stupid. But most of our society considers anyone under the age of 26 a "child" still. Don't believe me? Look at the rules for healthcare, who can rent cars and houses, etc.