Jump to content
howarthe

Swords

Recommended Posts

Is there a rule against using swords in Cub Scout ceremonies? I did a great knighting ceremony in February, but someone complained to the Cubmaster, so I couldn't repeat the ceremony this month. The Someone used to be a professional scouter at the area level, retired. His grandson is in my pack. He knows everything there is to know about Scouting. Which is annoying because I think I know everything there is to know about Scouting.  If it makes a difference: yes, it was a real sword, but no, it was not sharp. That is: the blade had no edge. I had about as much chance of accidentally hurting this boy with this sword as I did if it had been a baseball bat. That might be a good idea: a knighting ceremony with a baseball bat! What do you think?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I used to go out in the garage and play with my brother's ceremonial sword from the navy.

As rule, the reply is "show me where it is written!"

The danger is a scout imitating. Take a swing at a melon and see how far you get.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since someone complained and the CM asked you to cease and desist, I don't think it matters what the BSA "rules" are.  It wasn't that long ago when Cubs at day camp could dress up like pirates and swing wooden swords around.  Times have changed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since someone complained and the CM asked you to cease and desist, I don't think it matters what the BSA "rules" are.  It wasn't that long ago when Cubs at day camp could dress up like pirates and swing wooden swords around.  Times have changed.

 

What if he dressed as a native american and someone asked him to stop? If it is not against the rules then if others like it but just one complains then why stop?

 

I get the use of a proper sword might be questionable, so use a prop sword then. If it is not prohibited -- in fact many unofficial Scout sites on the net have this very ceremony listed -- why stop?

 

In today's society you will always find someone to object about something. Unless the rules prohibit it maybe it's THAT person who needs to get thicker skin and just enjoy the moment.

Edited by Krampus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm heading down to the SE's office this afternoon, the OA ceremony of shooting a flaming arrow runs against my sensibilities.  Since when is it proper to allow the boys access to assault weapons for their ceremonies?  I've watched enough Hollywood movies to know the pioneer people were shot with arrows.  What is it we are teaching our impressionable young boys nowadays?  Oh the inhumanity!

 

I feel better now.

 

On the other hand a sword by definition never has been an assault weapon,   If it was to be used for any other purpose other than ceremonial, identification of rank or as a visual command aid on the field, it could as a last resort be used as a self defense weapon.

 

If "someone" complained to the CM, that's between this unknown whiner and the CM.  If that "someone" is ever known one might be able to discuss it with them.  However, I find more often than not, this "someone" is really just an excuse to reflect blame off into the unknown rather than deal with the issue honestly.

 

Whenever I find myself in this situation where "someone" complained to the person bringing up the subject to me, I respond, "Thanks for the heads up and getting the issue resolved.  If they wish to address the issue further they can talk to me directly, I'm sure they have nothing to hide."   I'm guessing about 10% of the time the person will make themselves know.  The other 90% remain strangely silent on these "critical" issues.

 

I'd just keep doing what your doing, sounds like a neat idea for the boys.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What if he dressed as a native american and someone asked him to stop? If it is not against the rules then if others like it but just one complains then why stop?

 

I get the use of a proper sword might be questionable, so use a prop sword then. If it is not prohibited -- in fact many unofficial Scout sites on the net have this very ceremony listed -- why stop?

 

In today's society you will always find someone to object about something. Unless the rules prohibit it maybe it's THAT person who needs to get thicker skin and just enjoy the moment.

 

hey, yeah... dress like an indian, then if somebody complains you can claim racism!

 

Political correctness.... ruins a lot of things... ugh.

 

seriously though, if it were me I'd not do it again..... just to avoid conflict and to let them win

but maybe come up with some other innocuous item that might have some indirect connection to scouting.... like a flag pole with the den or pack flag on it....

or maybe get a piece of large diameter rope, maybe an inch or two in diameter and two or three feet long or so.... come up with a way to make it a little bit stiff.... like maybe stringing a wire through it or soaking the rope in glue and letting it cure straight

Then you could change your script a bit....

"and by the power of the magic rope, and all the scout knots in its reign... I knight thee ___"

Edited by blw2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, forgot to add what else that I thought of when the idea popped into my noggin'

If you're of the sort that might want to.... you could make some minor passive aggressive comment/joke about the sword when you pull out the magic rope (or whatever)... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hey, yeah... dress like an indian, then if somebody complains you can claim racism! Political correctness.... ruins a lot of things... ugh. seriously though, if it were me I'd not do it again..... just to avoid conflict and to let them win

But if you let them bully you -- and let's be honest, that's what this is when one person does not like something a majority of the people do like and forces them to change for just them -- what's to say they will stop? What's to stay they won't like the next thing you do? If the rules don't prohibit it and you are not violating any safety issues, why NOT do it?

 

We had parents complain about our OA tap out team. We told them if they didn't like it they could find another unit or take their son out of OA. It is not like our guys were speaking like some 50's B-movie Indian, they were merely paying tribute to the native American culture vis-a-vis their regalia and ceremony. BTW, the kid thought it was the coolest thing, go figure.

 

When we bow to the PC bullies for no reason we continue to empower them to take more from the majority.

Edited by Krampus
  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, since we've left the realm of turning the other cheek ... respectfully understanding what the objection may have been ( we think it is obvious, but maybe there is something else at play here ) ... and all else ...

 

I say go for the rage quit - like many multi-hat scouters, I have the velcro badge of office, that makes it real easy to rip off the badge, hand it to the complainer and say "ok, all yours" and walk off.

 

In reality no, but in practice

My last read of the guide to safe scouting was surprisingly silent on this issue.  As others have said, ask them to please show you where this activity is prohibited, and you will gladly stop and apologize, otherwise (1) They can participate in the event planning and voice their concern before the event, or (2) they can shut up.

 

Now, all that said, and to play the devils advocate, we do have some crazy leaders in our movement, and not all of them are so attentive to safety concerns.  You may know the sword was no more effective than a baseball bat, but they may not have known that and was honestly trying to look out for the safety of the Scouts.  I wasn't there, I don;t know the parties involved, so now, I'll just shut up. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If someone doesn't stand for something, they'll fall for anything.

 

A Scout is Brave.

 

According to the logic, then, whenever anyone encounters a intolerant bully, they are to turn the other cheek and give in.  Do I have that correct?

 

Ya don't have ta ding me on this, I'm only asking.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think a sword is a great idea. Me thinks this issue has less to do with safety and more about some guy just looking for a reason to puff up his feathers.

 

If it was a fun ceremony and the scouts really enjoyed it then I'd suggest talking to the CM. Don't put him in the middle between you and Someone. Ask for clarity. The CM will regurgitate what Someone told him. Look it up. When you can't find it bring it back and show the CM. Talk about how much fun the scouts had .... You just need a way for Someone to save face when you tell him you're bringing back the sword. Then you can get back to having fun with the boy's imaginations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe put on OA regalia and use an arrow to tap out "knight" the boys into the tribe of Good Scouts.  :)  I'm sure that Someone will have something to say about that and then one can turn it over to the Lodge to sort out.  :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I brought them to my B& G

 

How does one dub someone with a light saber without cutting their arms off?

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How does one dub someone with a light saber without cutting their arms off?

 

Pray really hard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...